Starting Counselling - Genis' Story
Starting Counselling: Genis' Story
In this episode MaryLayo and guest, Genis Fernandes, discuss seeking help, finding a counsellor and highlight some of the frustrations and benefits they experienced on their journey.
Concluding with a touch of spiritual wellness, MaryLayo offers a reflective tip from Philippians 4:13, inviting listeners to join her next time for more insights on mental health and spiritual wellbeing. Remember to follow and share if you enjoyed the conversation about finding a counsellor.
Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation. For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.
Questions include:
- Why did you consider counselling?
- How did you go about choosing your counsellor?
- What do you remember when you first had counselling?
- How long have you been having therapy?
- What frustrations have you experienced or heard about counselling?
- What tips would you give someone who is in two minds about having counselling?
Guest details:
Genis Fernandes works as a Research Programme Lead and also serves as a volunteer for a mental health charity.
Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scripture Philippians 4:13.
External resources:
For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.
#BeyondTheSmile #StartingCounselling #MaryLayoTalks #MentalHealth #GettingHelp #HavingTherapy
Transcript
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::MaryLayo: Welcome to beyond the smile with me,
MaryLayo, a podcast that discusses mental
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::health and spiritual wellbeing.
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::If you like what you hear, please do remember
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::to follow and share.
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::But before we jump in, there may be episodes
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::that are particularly sensitive for some
listeners.
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::And if that applies, then I hope you will join
me whenever you feel ready and able.
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::In today's to episode, we're discussing
counselling, and I'm talking to guest Genis
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::Fernandez about her journey in seeking help
and making that personal investment.
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::Genis shares about the different things she
considered along the way.
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::But to start off with, I asked Genis when and
why did she consider counselling.
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::Let's join in the conversation first.
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::Consider having counselling.
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::And why did you consider counselling?
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::Genis: So, going back to two years, I had
quite a few things going on in life in
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::general.
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::There was particular events like changing
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::jobs, having new friendships, relationships
that felt a bit overwhelming because I moved
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::here around four years ago.
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::So my social system.
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::MaryLayo: So you moved from another country to
the UK?
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::Yeah.
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::Genis: So I moved from India around four years
ago and my social support system, my close
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::friends, of course, weren't around and
although I have family, they were not very
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::close by as well.
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::So I think a lot of changes did happen at that
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::time for me.
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::And I had a lot of, I don't want to say novel
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::feelings, but that were unfamiliar to me.
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::Like, I started feeling a bit too anxious, a
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::bit too overwhelmed, a lot of rumination, a
lot of thoughts that were going really way out
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::of control.
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::And I felt like, okay, this is getting a bit
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::too much for me to handle, and I probably need
some external support or another perspective
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::to kind of navigate through what's going on.
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::So although the thought of even considering
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::counselling came about two years ago, I
actually, from the thought to actually going
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::into my first therapy session was, I think, an
eight month gap.
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::So it was quite a long time that I had.
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::I thought about it, kind of found someone and
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::actually went into my first session.
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::So quite a few factors.
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::Yeah, sure.
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::MaryLayo: I would kind of say that my
experience is a little bit similar to yours,
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::but I think mine probably built up.
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::So I think that because there was a lot of
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::change or a lot of different things that was
going on at the time, they probably
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::accumulated and became more intense than I
realised.
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::That's what I think.
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::So I started noticing things that would, I
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::would say was uncharacteristic of myself.
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::Genis: Exactly.
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::MaryLayo: And I realised, and one of the
things that I felt was that my resilience had
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::been stripped.
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::Genis: Oh, yes.
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::MaryLayo: So, yeah, so things that I felt that
I would normally and quite easily cope with.
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::I wasn't coping and managing it the way I
would normally do.
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::I was sending myself messages about how I felt
within.
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::And one time when I was explaining this to
someone, I got really emotional because I
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::connected it with like, I would say like a
life changing event.
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::And while I was explaining it how since then I
felt different in terms of my resilience.
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::I then realised, you know, what I was advised
actually at the time with the people I was
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::sharing it with that I needed.
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::I really need to get some help with this.
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::And I'm quite surprised actually because given
the fact that I'm this mental health advocate,
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::I'm surprised that it's taken me this long to
actually, you know, go for therapy.
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::And in terms of time scales we're talking
about summer last year.
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::Okay.
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::That's when I. Yeah, that's when I first
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::considered having counselling.
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::And I don't know why I didn't think about it
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::sooner because I think it's something I would
have benefited from a lot earlier.
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::Genis: Yeah.
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::MaryLayo: So Genis, you mentioned about how
there was a lot of different things so you
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::couldn't attribute it to being one, I guess,
event or issue.
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::So how did you actually go about even choosing
your counsellor?
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::Genis: Yeah. So for me personally, I needed
someone who had some experience with
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::multicultural counselling.
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::Because like I mentioned, since I moved here,
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::I did understand that I needed someone who
understood my background, my value system, my
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::thinking, for example, why I attribute a lot
of things to my parents or why I would need a
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::lot of.
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::I would not need to explain someone, give them
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::a lot of context as to why I do things the way
I do.
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::So I wanted someone from back home.
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::So I was looking at basically counsellors who
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::did sessions worldwide or like did tele
psychology quality telecounseling.
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::So looking at the second most important thing
that I was looking for is their expertise.
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::So are they specialised in certain things?
Like for me it was like trying to figure out
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::where these, where the anxiety is coming from.
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::So kind of looking at specialisations within a
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::particular area as well.
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::And also like their academic background
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::because I myself have an academic background
in psychology.
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::So I kind of understood like therapists and
their training.
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::So I just wanted someone who kind of got that
expertise or who would be competent enough to
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::just help me with the whole process, really.
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::So I even reached out to friends, I knew a
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::few, couple of close friends who were in
therapy as well.
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::So just checking recommendations from them,
talking to them.
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::How did they have kind of the process they
went through as well really helped.
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::And even asking referrals from friends, like,
is there anybody would suggest, but of course
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::you want to make sure it's not someone they
know personally just because of conflict of
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::interest, of course.
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::But you could also, there are websites that
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::have like a directory of therapists as well.
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::Like in the UK, if you want to go down the NHS
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::GP route, you could always reach out to your
GP and get a referral to the NHS.
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::There's charities like Samaritans and mind
that could always signpost you to therapists
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::as well.
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::But personally, for me, was doing my own
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::research and reaching out to friends and
getting in touch with them, having
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::conversations, like, sometimes I even felt
like you're going to call a few, you're going
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::to reach out to a few and sometimes it might
not be something that you're looking for,
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::which is fine, and they might be busy or we
are overbooked, but that's okay, you can just
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::keep looking and someone always wrecks.
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::MaryLayo: So, yeah, when I went for
counselling and how I actually found the
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::therapist was through my workplaces employee
assistance programme.
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::But like, what you said about, you know, just
like your values and for example, the cultural
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::differences and how for you it was important
to find someone who.
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::It wasn't going to be hard work for them to
understand where you were coming from.
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::That's something actually, that I think a lot
of people actually have at the back of their
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::minds.
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::And I say that because even when I was looking
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::for a therapist, I remember asking a few
questions, you know, or even me thinking, oh,
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::it'll be ideal if this therapist could or have
this like a background, just in terms of,
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::like, values.
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::When I say values, as in christian values,
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::because those are the very strong values that
I have.
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::And, like, you reminded me about a
conversation that I had with a friend who's,
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::who's a Muslim.
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::And one of the things that she said when she
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::was looking for a counsellor or when she was
having counselling was just the importance of
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::someone who actually understood her religion,
her faith, as well as her culture.
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::So I think that has a part of a strong part to
play for some people, just the sense that they
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::want someone who can understand where they're
coming from.
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::They don't have to try and explain, so that
someone understands why they think the way
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::they do, why they behave the way they do, why
they make certain decisions.
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::Because your background, your perhaps your
faith, your values, they all shape why you do
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::things, why you say things or what decisions
you make and having someone that you're going
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::to talk to that can understand that and not
judge you or not try and think, or not try and
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::work out the why, you know, beforehand does
help, or could help, I think.
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::But I mean, saying that I had a counsellor who
didn't have, you know, I don't know, actually
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::their background, but I found it still
worthwhile.
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::So I do need to add that in, actually.
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::Genis: Yeah.
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::MaryLayo: So what can, what can someone who
hasn't actually had counselling, they haven't
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::gone to a therapist, what can they expect if
they were actually going to go down that path?
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::So do you, like, do you remember when you
first, you know, you had your first session
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::with your therapist and.
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::Yeah.
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::What did you, did you have any expectations?
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::Genis: It takes me back to quite a few
feelings and emotions, really, because I
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::remember for my therapy session, I felt very
anxious and very nervous about the session
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::itself because I was like, this is somebody
who doesn't know me at all.
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::And getting very vulnerable in front of them
and talking about things that are very
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::personal to you can be very overwhelming and
you need to have some level of, or you build
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::that trust with your therapist and you build
that comfort level with them.
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::So even the first one feels very daunting.
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::And that's very normal because this is someone
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::very new to you.
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::So it's okay if you feel overwhelmed, you feel
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::nervous, you feel anxious, that's completely
fine.
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::But you go into the session just taking them
one basic thing as to what got you there.
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::That's one question that I just thought about.
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::Okay, why am I here?
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::You know, what am I trying to get out of this?
So, I think something that you gotta expect is
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::answering that question.
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::They're gonna ask you that no matter what you
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::kind of want to bring to the table or not.
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::But I think it's also important to remember
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::that you are in control of the session.
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::You, it's all for you, and you've made this
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::decision.
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::So it's all going to be whatever you want that
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::session to be.
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::You could be there in silence and tell them
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::one word or one sentence and let them brief
you on what the expectations are or what you'd
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::like to talk about, or when you want sessions
to be arranged.
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::It could be partly admin related, but could
also be talking about things that are really
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::on your mind.
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::You could even use your first session to kind
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::of even talk about, of course, what got you
there.
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::But if there's anything you're comfortable
sharing beyond that, I think they're always
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::happy.
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::Happy to hear and happy to help you.
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::But no, I think other than that, the first
session for me was just being open and honest
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::with the therapist because that just, I felt,
really helped me to get the most out of the
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::session.
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::So I did take some time to prepare for it.
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::I did.
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::Did a lot of reflection.
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::A day before, a week before, definitely.
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::I think because I was like, for your first
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::session?
Yeah, I think I'm impressed.
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::MaryLayo: That's really good.
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::Genis: I just felt like I was mentally
prepared because I said, like, it was eight
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::months till that.
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::I got myself at the first session started a
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::lot of thinking in between, a lot of questions
that I wanted myself to get in to make peace
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::with before I went to that session.
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::And I think one thing that really stays with
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::me after my first session was what my
therapist told me just after we ended the
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::first session.
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::She was like, most courageous thing you've
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::already done is getting yourself to the first
session.
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::That's the big step.
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::So beyond that is just you showing up for
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::yourself and doing the work that you want to
do.
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::So in a nutshell, that's kind of what the
first session is going to feel like.
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::But it depends on person to person.
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::For someone, it could be completely different.
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::Like you're all ready to talk about everything
and address some things or not on the complete
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::opposite spectrum, which is fine, you know,
we're all different.
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::We're all going to have a different experience
and that's okay.
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::MaryLayo: So, Genis, like you've been seeing
your therapist for how long now?
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::Genis: It's been.
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::It's been a year now.
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::MaryLayo: A year.
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::And how often do you see your therapist?
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::Given that I know she's not in the UK.
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::It's a she, isn't it?
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::I'm right in assuming that, yeah.
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::Genis: So initially it was every three weeks,
but now I do it every four weeks.
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::Like around once a month.
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::MaryLayo: Okay. Okay. And obviously this is
remotely.
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::Genis: Yes, remotely.
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::We use, of course, we use video conferencing
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::platforms like Skype.
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::So I think that's the best part about tele
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::psychology now.
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::It gives you so much access to anyone across
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::the globe and it's at your pace, at your time.
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::So of course, time schedules are something
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::that we need to consider.
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::But that's one of the cons.
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::But it outweighs them.
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::MaryLayo: So you've mentioned about how you've
been meeting with your therapist.
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::Let's just say once a month, averaging once a
month.
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::And that's very convenient given that it's on
a video conferencing platform, you don't have
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::to leave your doorstep, you don't have to
travel through it.
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::So those are some of the perks in terms of the
way that you've been doing your counselling,
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::having your counselling sessions.
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::So what have, or what are, if you have any or
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::if you're comfortable sharing, what are some
of the frustrations or even challenges that
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::you've experienced or you may have heard
about?
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::Genis: Yeah, of course.
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::I think the number one that I've heard about
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::with close friends and family is finding a
therapist because although you know you want
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::one, finding one can be very difficult because
of course you don't want, you want someone who
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::kind of fits your personal needs, someone that
kind of fits around your schedule as well.
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::And of course your price range if that's
something you're concerned about.
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::Also, you need to find someone that you're
comfortable with, I think, and you trust
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::because that's another very important part of
therapy, because you're being very raw, bare,
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::vulnerable in front of this person.
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::And to make the most out of your sessions, you
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::have to be able to trust them to get into
these conversations and have very discuss
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::sensitive topics and you have to be
uncomfortable with them and be as open and
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::honest as possible.
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::So I think those are the two things that I've
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::seen that are pretty common that people
experience trying to find therapist and find
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::someone who you can be very comfortable and
trustworthy with.
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::I think another thing that I would say that I
found is, in terms of therapy itself, is
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::overestimating the time of impact that they're
going to see.
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::I think sometimes you assume that, okay, two
sessions, three sessions are going to do the
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::job, okay, I've done the work.
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::I'm all okay now.
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::I kind of, I can manage myself, I'm all good.
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::But I think that's kind of an assumption.
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::Sometimes it might work.
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::Sometimes like, you know, you're good, you're
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::consistent with the work that you need to do
and you see the changes, but sometimes it does
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::not because life happens and you fall back
into old habits and you fall back into old
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::patterns, but then you have to remind yourself
and keep doing the work to see long term
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::impact.
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::So the impact is another thing that you might
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::have an assumption about or an estimation
about, which might not work, which might be a
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::bit frustrating because you're putting your
time and energy into it and you might think,
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::oh, but why is this not working?
Why is this taking so long?
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::Which is fine, it's okay to have those
feelings and those thoughts because you don't
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::want to see change.
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::And if it's taking time and it is frustrating,
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::that's fine, but you just need to be a bit
patient, a lot of patience with yourself.
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::And I think another one that I've personally
experienced in therapy is talking about
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::sensitive subjects.
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::Like I said, you need to build that trust with
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::your therapist.
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::So getting things to the table might seem a
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::bit, oh, can I talk about this?
Is this something I can talk to my therapist
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::about?
Will they be comfortable talking about this?
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::So I think that's something that I personally
struggled with.
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::But then I realised over time, the more that I
keep things inside, that's where the problem
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::lies.
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::And the things that you don't talk about
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::actually are the things that will set you free
or kind of give you that inner peace you're
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::really longing for.
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::So, although I've had these misconceptions
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::about bringing things to the table, actually
telling or being honest with my therapist,
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::saying, you know what, I don't know if I can
say this, but I'm just going to say this now
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::and this is it.
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::So I don't know what to do about this.
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::So just navigating through building that trust
in the relationship with your therapist is
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::another thing I've personally struggled with.
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::But, of course, every experience is personal
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::to everyone.
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::But I think these are the couple of things
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::that have come up for me and others.
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::MaryLayo: I mean, you've mentioned trust and
being honest with your therapist a few times,
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::and I think that's important.
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::I definitely think that's important, too.
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::Let me ask you a question.
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::What would you say?
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::And I think, I don't think you've experienced
this because you've had the same therapist for
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::about a year, but if someone, like, they
started on that journey with a therapist, but
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::they didn't feel comfortable with them, they
hadn't, you know.
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::Yeah, they.
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::I guess they had trust issues, or they have
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::trust issues.
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::Would you say to stick with it?
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::Or would you say, you know, at the end of the
day, it's your time, it's your money,
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::potentially find someone else, you know, like,
how patient should someone be?
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::How patient should someone be?
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::Genis: So think about that.
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::I think it's all up to the person.
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::If you feel uncomfortable, if you feel this
is.
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::Something's not working right from the start,
there's nothing stopping you saying, you know
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::what, thank you for the first session, but I'd
like to explore or find someone else because
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::something's just not sitting right with me.
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::And that's fine because you need to remember
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::that this is your time.
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::This is your personal experience.
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::These are your feelings, your thoughts.
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::So if you're feeling uncomfortable that
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::something's not sitting right with you, that
is fine.
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::You can be open and honest to them about it,
about how you're feeling and find someone
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::else.
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::It's okay to kind of find somebody else that
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::fits better with you because you're going to
be spending 1 hour with them, talking about
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::yourself and things that are on your mind.
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::And if you want to get the best out of it,
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::it's best to find someone that matches you
with how you're feeling in that space.
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::And you need to feel very safe in that space
with this person.
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::Yeah, that's what I would suggest to someone.
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::MaryLayo: Yeah, no, and I agree with you.
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::I do agree that it's important to find someone
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::that you are comfortable sharing with, you can
talk to.
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::And it's something that I like.
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::While you were talking, I was almost like
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::playing back a conversation I've had with a
friend who used to, I guess, complain about,
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::you know, a therapist she was seeing and how.
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::Yeah, I guess she just wasn't so happy.
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::But saying that, I think after a while she was
also saying positive things.
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::So it's probably good for that person to also
perhaps explore or maybe give it a. You know,
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::give it some time, perhaps, you know, just in.
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::You know, just in case it can.
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::It can change.
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::Yeah, but like you said, it's down to the
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::individual and.
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::Genis: Yeah, yeah, of course.
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::Like in the very first instance, if it feels
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::something feels off, of course find somebody
else.
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::But like you said, you know, sometimes it just
probably you need time to get used to that.
363
::Of course, it's a new relationship you're
trying to build with someone, a therapeutic
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::relationship.
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::And sometimes even talk about transference and
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::counselling where like, you project your
preconceived notions and your fears onto your
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::therapist or vice versa.
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::So probably that's something that's happening.
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::But then again, if you raise it with your
counsellor, probably you can navigate as to
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::where that's coming from, you know?
So I think even at the bottom of having such
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::an experience as well, is talking about it to
your therapist, because that's the best way to
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::get the bottom off it.
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::If you really need to find somebody else or
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::it's just an internal struggle or something,
that you need to work with them.
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::So.
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::MaryLayo: Yeah, so, like, one of the things I
noticed when I had my time with a therapist
377
::was you mentioned about patience.
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::Cause I had to be patient.
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::You know, I remember, like, I think I like,
even week four, week five, I was still
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::thinking.
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::I was still going into those sessions
382
::thinking, oh, what is this doing for me?
You know, is this really helping?
383
::You know, this might, this.
384
::Now I have my time, my busy schedule that
385
::don't have, you know, because I wasn't really
seeing the benefits.
386
::And it was only, I think the turning point for
me was session five, you know, and then I
387
::started actually thinking, oh, this is really
good.
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::This is really good for me because it was
giving me time to explore, evaluate, analyse,
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::become more self aware.
390
::And when you're aware of things that you
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::weren't previously really aware of, you could
then do something about it.
392
::If it's not positive, you know, if it's not
positive.
393
::And so I. It took me a while before I noticed
the benefits.
394
::So how long did it take, maybe even from the,
from the first session for you?
395
::Who knows?
But how long did it take before you noticed or
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::have you noticed any, any benefits so far from
your therapy?
397
::Genis: Of course.
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::Like, I think after, I was so optimistic about
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::therapy in itself.
400
::So after my second session, I was like, wow,
401
::this is brilliant.
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::The homework's working, I'm doing so well.
403
::And after two or three months, of course, life
happens and you dip.
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::And I was like, wait, hold on.
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::Actually, this is coming back.
406
::This is.
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::Something's not right again.
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::So I think for me, it comes in waves.
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::Like, I still feel I'm still growing and still
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::learning so much about myself.
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::Like you spoke about self awareness, which I
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::think is so something that I relate to a lot.
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::I've become so self aware since this journey.
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::A lot of reflection and has kind of taken
place along these months for me.
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::And I think it's still happening.
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::It's still a journey.
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::It's still.
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::It's still a process.
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::But I think after six months or so, that's
when I really feel, okay, this is, this is
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::going in the right direction.
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::This is something I need to work on.
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::These are my, these are the things that really
need my attention right now.
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::These are the things that are blocking, uh,
blocking me from being my best self, for
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::example.
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::So, yeah, you kind of, you kind of learn your
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::way of processing things and learning about
yourself in therapy.
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::I wouldn't say it's a timeline for anyone.
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::It could be one session or two sessions for
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::you, or it could be your 8th or 9th or in five
months.
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::You never know because also depends on the
type of therapy you're even in.
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::So it's been, it's been an interesting journey
so far.
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::Yeah.
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::MaryLayo: And what would you say has surprised
you the most about your counselling journey?
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::Genis: Surprised me the most, I would say the,
the non judgmental aspect of it.
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::It's going and sitting with someone and
talking to them about your thoughts, the way
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::you think about why you do things, the way you
do things sometimes, or explaining life in
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::general.
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::And they will take it as it is.
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::There's no judgement from them, there is no
opinions, no labelling that takes place that
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::makes you feel inferior, or there's something
wrong with you, or there's something that
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::needs to be fixed.
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::It's that attitude or that safe space that
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::comes with therapy.
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::Something that really surprised me.
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::Although in theory, I kind of knew that would
happen.
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::But in practise sitting there and be like,
wow, okay, I can talk about that and not feel
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::ashamed about it, I think that's one thing
really surprised me.
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::And also that the time it gives you it
yourself, the focus is all about all the
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::things happen in life and you're taking them
to your therapist.
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::It's all about, okay, but how, how I, what,
what's my role in this event?
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::So the focus that's kind of redirected to you,
I think, is something that I did not expect.
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::I think those are the top two things I would
say that kind of really surprised me with
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::therapy.
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::MaryLayo: What tips would you give someone
who's in two minds, you know, about having
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::counselling based on your own experience?
Um, like, for me, I don't know why it took me
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::so long.
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::Let's put it that way.
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::Yeah, I think.
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::I think back in the days, um, I. There was,
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::you know, I probably had this stereotype of,
you know, you had to be some sort of person,
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::you know, that really needed help.
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::You know, you had issues to go for therapy.
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::However, that's changed over time.
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::But what would you say if someone is in two
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::minds, what would you say to them based on
your own experience?
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::Genis: My first very straightaway answer would
be, do it.
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::But I understand it's not as easy as it
sounds.
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::For me myself, it took me eight months from
the intention to action.
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::And there are various reasons as to why that
happens.
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::Sometimes you're trying to find some person,
or even for me, I felt like I was not in the
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::headspace to talk about it.
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::Sometimes things get too heavy and you're not
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::just ready to put it into words and explain to
somebody else what's going on internally,
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::which is fine if you think you need some space
to get yourself together.
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::And then when you're ready to talk about it
and you want to take it to someone, that's
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::fine too.
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::But in that space I would also say make sure
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::you're not isolated, make sure you're not
alone.
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::Talk to a trusted friend, a family member or
somebody is out there who can listen to you
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::basically.
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::But when you are ready, do it because it's
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::something that's going to help you.
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::There's no con to going into therapy because
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::this is something you're doing for yourself
and for nobody else really.
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::This is.
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::It's like a personal investment in yourself, I
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::would say.
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::So be patient with yourself through the
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::process because it's not going to be easy,
it's going to be very uncomfortable.
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::But it's definitely something I would
recommend to someone who's in two minds
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::because I get it.
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::Like, Mary, you mentioned stigma as well.
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::Like even self stigma and personal stigma
comes into play.
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::Like, should I. Is this something I want?
Is my problem that big enough that I need to
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::take it to therapy?
Is it something wrong with me?
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::All of these things?
Of course I felt those things too.
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::But then you need to realise everyone's
threshold for tolerance of things that happen
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::in life is different.
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::And it's okay, you know, it's all part of the
500
::human experience.
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::We're all going to have good days, we're all
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::going to have bad days and sometimes it's
manageable, sometimes it's not.
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::So. But there's always someone out there who's
waiting to listen and it might be your next
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::therapist.
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::So give it a good thought.
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::Definitely go for it.
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::MaryLayo: Thank you, Genis. No, I'm.
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::I like what you've said about how, you know,
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::it's all part of the human experience and
certainly give it some thought.
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::As for you, you've gone down this route and
you're.
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::There's no. There's been no regrets.
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::So.
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::Yeah.
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::Yeah, brilliant.
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::All right.
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::Thanks, Genis, for explaining and just
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::sharing about your experience and how it's
benefited you.
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::Genis: Thank you, Mary.
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::MaryLayo: Here's a spiritual wellness tip for
you.
520
::Meditate on Philippians, Romans 413, which is
one of Genes’ favourites.
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::And it reads, I can do all things through
Christ who strengthens me.
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::Thanks for listening.
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::Do follow and join me again next time on
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::beyond the smile with MaryLayo.
