Not now...Later!

1

:: 00:00

Marylayo:

2

:: 00:03

Marylayo: Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a

podcast that discusses mental health and

3

:: 00:08

spiritual.

4

:: 00:09

Wellbeing, before we jump in, there may be

5

:: 00:12

episodes that are particularly sensitive for

some listeners and if that applies, then I

6

:: 00:17

hope you'll be able to join me whenever you

feel ready and able.

7

:: 00:24

Marylayo: You today's episode is with guest

Edward Hagan.

8

:: 00:30

Edward describes his experience with

Procrastination, which is our topic today, and

9

:: 00:36

explains how marriage played a part in his

turnaround from procrastinating.

10

:: 00:41

Marylayo: Let's go and check to him.

11

:: 00:45

Edward: Well, for me, procrastination, the

biggest example that I had of when I really

12

:: 00:51

struggled with it was when I was at university

and maybe I'd had to write an essay and I'd

13

:: 00:56

sit in the library for about an hour not

starting the essay.

14

:: 01:01

And I think procrastination is you have to do

something.

15

:: 01:05

You've got a timeline to do it, but you don't

want to be restricted by that timeline.

16

:: 01:10

You don't want to be controlled by set of

circumstances.

17

:: 01:14

You want to control it yourself.

18

:: 01:16

And if it's something that's natural and good

19

:: 01:19

and enjoyable, then you won't procrastinate,

you'll just go and do it.

20

:: 01:23

But if it's something that seems to be a task,

like making a phone call to the bank or to

21

:: 01:28

HMRC, then that is more easy to procrastinate.

22

:: 01:32

So I would describe procrastination as delayed

23

:: 01:35

response to something urgent or important.

24

:: 01:39

Marylayo: And I guess the difference from what

you've said is the fact that you don't want to

25

:: 01:43

do it for a particular reason because maybe

it's stressful or overwhelming or difficult

26

:: 01:50

and that's why you're avoiding doing it.

27

:: 01:52

Edward: Yes, that's very good, Mary. Because

that kind of leads me on to really why maybe

28

:: 01:57

some people procrastinate is that we're

concerned about the outcome of a task and our

29

:: 02:04

ability to do the task in the way someone else

or society thinks it should be done, which is

30

:: 02:09

a little bit deep.

31

:: 02:10

Marylayo: I would probably even add how not

even just someone else, but even yourself, for

32

:: 02:16

example.

33

:: 02:16

I may procrastinate because of what I think

34

:: 02:21

needs to be done.

35

:: 02:22

And what I think needs to be done is really

36

:: 02:25

huge or difficult and that's why I'm not doing

it could be self imposed as well as our

37

:: 02:31

perception of, like you said, of what other

people you mentioned about university and that

38

:: 02:38

5000 word assignments.

39

:: 02:44

I've heard that or I know that there's quite a

40

:: 02:47

lot of students actually that struggle with

procrastination.

41

:: 02:51

I guess that's a significant memory.

42

:: 02:54

Do you remember even procrastinating before

43

:: 02:57

then?

44

:: 02:58

Edward: Yeah, absolutely.

45

:: 02:59

So I think really I remembered it having that

46

:: 03:02

kind of procrastination nature at times when I

was about six.

47

:: 03:06

I can't say specific incident or issue, but I

just with things that I didn't like to do or

48

:: 03:13

didn't want to do, I tried to delay them.

49

:: 03:16

If like as a six year old I used to play the

50

:: 03:19

piano and then I gave it up for football.

51

:: 03:21

But if someone said, come play football then I

52

:: 03:24

won't procrastinate about that.

53

:: 03:26

But maybe if my mom said, go and practice

54

:: 03:29

playing a piano, I'd probably procrastinate

about that, which is really silly because I'm

55

:: 03:34

probably more talented at piano playing than

football.

56

:: 03:38

But even though I was a good.

57

:: 03:39

Marylayo: Footballer firstly, I think it's

common, especially around that age when you're

58

:: 03:44

a child and it seems to be associated with a

chore.

59

:: 03:47

But then actually something that you said

about being talented or having even a strength

60

:: 03:52

for playing the piano compared to football,

yet you wanted to play football rather than

61

:: 03:57

practice.

62

:: 03:58

I don't know, there's just something in there.

63

:: 04:01

Edward: Yeah, definitely there is.

64

:: 04:02

I mean, looking back as a much more elderly

65

:: 04:05

person now than a six year old, I'd love to be

able to sit down and play the piano.

66

:: 04:09

I can go and play football now if I wanted to,

for fun.

67

:: 04:12

So sometimes I think procrastination is born

in the mind, and it's a mindset that thinks

68

:: 04:18

that something is going to be difficult or

wearisome or put a demand on you that you

69

:: 04:23

don't particularly want to give.

70

:: 04:25

So, for example, I'm really good at writing.

71

:: 04:28

I can write poetry.

72

:: 04:29

I'm not being overconfident when I say this,

73

:: 04:31

but I could probably write a novel.

74

:: 04:32

I was a journalist, a motoring journalist for

75

:: 04:34

a national ethnic minority newspaper.

76

:: 04:37

And I struggled with procrastination there.

77

:: 04:40

And that was maybe five years after leaving

university because I'd have to do a daily

78

:: 04:45

report to a deadline.

79

:: 04:46

And so whilst I enjoyed driving the cars,

80

:: 04:49

experience the cars, knowing what the

strengths and weaknesses of a car is, I didn't

81

:: 04:55

like to sit down and have to write a copy on

the car.

82

:: 04:58

So that whole process was very frustrating to

me to do that aspect of the work.

83

:: 05:03

Marylayo: And even though writing was a

strength, because maybe it's associated with a

84

:: 05:08

task and plus, I guess the pressure of having

a timeline clouded.

85

:: 05:13

Edward: Yeah, absolutely.

86

:: 05:14

And then also, the editor of the newspaper, he

87

:: 05:18

was a tough guy, he was a no nonsense guy.

88

:: 05:21

And so whilst I got to drive some really nice

89

:: 05:23

cars, I had to make sure that the

manufacturers that I got the cars from had a

90

:: 05:28

good truthful review first and foremost.

91

:: 05:30

But they had a well constructed report on the

92

:: 05:33

car.

93

:: 05:33

It was that aspect that demand the timeline

94

:: 05:37

was the most likely thing to cause

procrastination.

95

:: 05:40

So I think also procrastination has to do with

confidence.

96

:: 05:44

So when you talk about students struggling

with procrastination, about doing reports or

97

:: 05:50

essays, I think it's because there's an

outcome to it.

98

:: 05:53

And the fear or the concern about the outcome

makes it very, very difficult for them to

99

:: 05:59

begin the process.

100

:: 06:00

And so with procrastination, it's the

101

:: 06:03

beginning that is the most difficult part.

102

:: 06:05

So once you actually begin the task or make

103

:: 06:08

the phone call, that kind of feeling

dissipates.

104

:: 06:11

I mentor a couple of students.

105

:: 06:13

I just told them that once you do the

106

:: 06:15

beginning, the middle becomes a little bit

more straightforward.

107

:: 06:18

Once you've done the middle, the ending, you

get a sense of how you want to end then.

108

:: 06:23

So procrastination is something that really

affects the mind more than anything, and then

109

:: 06:28

the mind then determines the action.

110

:: 06:30

Marylayo: So how did you come to actually

realize that this was an issue, but it was a

111

:: 06:36

habit in terms of how to deal with?

112

:: 06:39

Edward: Yeah. I realized at university,

because it was nonsensical in many ways, that,

113

:: 06:44

you know, you have to do an essay and you

spend an hour sitting at a table avoiding

114

:: 06:49

doing something that you know you have to do.

115

:: 06:51

So I went through that process, and so it was

116

:: 06:54

quite demanding because I had to read a lot

because I did studied literature and

117

:: 06:58

psychology humanities at university, and so I

had to read a lot and I had to write a lot.

118

:: 07:03

I think what saved me, to be honest, at

university, was that I played high level

119

:: 07:08

tennis.

120

:: 07:09

And that kind of release from tennis, doing

121

:: 07:12

something fun, enjoyable, whilst at

university, probably stimulated me more to be

122

:: 07:17

able to deal with the demands of writing, et

cetera.

123

:: 07:21

When did I realize I realized it was a

problem.

124

:: 07:23

It's not normal to sit at a table and wait an

hour to write something.

125

:: 07:26

It's a horrible feeling.

126

:: 07:28

Yeah.

127

:: 07:29

Marylayo: And besides it being a horrible

feeling at the time, how did it impact you in

128

:: 07:34

terms of your well being?

129

:: 07:35

Edward: You know what, Mary?

Honestly, two examples being at university and

130

:: 07:39

doing the journalism.

131

:: 07:40

I don't think it really affected me outside of

132

:: 07:43

the moment.

133

:: 07:44

So I didn't carry that feeling into other

134

:: 07:46

aspects of my life.

135

:: 07:48

I didn't feel, oh, you've got a problem.

136

:: 07:50

It was just something that I had to deal with

and work through.

137

:: 07:53

And so I don't consciously feel that it

affected me outside of that moment.

138

:: 07:59

Yeah.

139

:: 07:59

Marylayo: So from the sounds of it, your

difficulty was getting started, which is

140

:: 08:05

typical of someone who procrastinate, but once

you got started, you delivered what you needed

141

:: 08:11

to do.

142

:: 08:13

Edward: I wouldn't say the procrastination was

at such a level that it affected my mental

143

:: 08:19

well being.

144

:: 08:20

Consciously, I can't remember that or feel

145

:: 08:22

that.

146

:: 08:23

But I do know now, as we're talking about it,

147

:: 08:26

I think people have different pressure vowels

to deal with that kind of pressure.

148

:: 08:31

Marylayo: Yeah. Like when I struggled,

particularly in the past, back in actually, it

149

:: 08:36

was something that hovered like a cloud.

150

:: 08:39

So even though I enjoyed the friendships and

151

:: 08:42

the fun and all that kind of jazz, I do

remember that when it came to the studying

152

:: 08:47

part, I had those dark because I struggled to

get going with reviving doing those

153

:: 08:54

assignments, which is probably students, but

it was a particular issue for me.

154

:: 09:01

Edward: It's funny you should say that, Mary.

155

:: 09:03

So I've got a brain almost like photographic

156

:: 09:06

memory, and I also have very deep memories.

157

:: 09:10

Marylayo: You mentioned about procrastinating

in a sense when you were a child through uni

158

:: 09:16

and even when you were working as a journalist

how did you manage to get through it and

159

:: 09:23

overcome that feeling of that inertia that

initiative?

160

:: 09:29

Edward: How I do it today generally is that

I'm very instinctive person now rather than

161

:: 09:35

analytical person.

162

:: 09:36

So I'd rather make a choice to do something

163

:: 09:40

and get it wrong or come across wrong than not

do it.

164

:: 09:43

And I think that's one of the main things that

affect procrastination.

165

:: 09:47

I think you need to be reactive and

instinctive rather than analytical.

166

:: 09:52

I think a lot of analytical people are

procrastinators because they think of so many

167

:: 09:57

different outcomes to things.

168

:: 09:59

So now, good or bad, I'm very instinctive.

169

:: 10:02

I make disease.

170

:: 10:03

So if I want to buy a bar chocolate, I'll buy

171

:: 10:07

a bar chocolate.

172

:: 10:07

I won't think, oh, if I eat these there's

173

:: 10:09

going to be so much calories and I don't

overthink.

174

:: 10:13

I've reached a stage in life where I know who

I am and what I'm about and also the other

175

:: 10:19

side of it I don't worry.

176

:: 10:21

I used to worry so much.

177

:: 10:22

Maybe as a child I had a lot of

responsibility.

178

:: 10:26

My parents split up when we were very young,

and my mother brought up six children by

179

:: 10:30

herself.

180

:: 10:30

I was one of the middle children.

181

:: 10:32

So I think that there was a lot of kind of

burden responsibility as well.

182

:: 10:37

And so maybe I grew up a bit older than I

should have done in terms of my age and so

183

:: 10:43

tended to want to maybe want to please people,

do the right thing, rather than do what I

184

:: 10:49

actually wanted to do.

185

:: 10:50

So I'm not like that anymore in the sense that

186

:: 10:52

I don't really care too much what people think

about me.

187

:: 10:55

I know that might sound arrogant, but I really

do believe that's really important.

188

:: 11:00

I think it's important to be responsible and

to live a good life and to be kind and loving

189

:: 11:05

and sensitive to people.

190

:: 11:07

But I just tend not to worry too much about

191

:: 11:09

stuff anymore.

192

:: 11:10

Marylayo: You know, what you've mentioned

keywords that I think are all tangled within

193

:: 11:16

this whole characteristics when it comes to

procrastination, whether it comes to people

194

:: 11:22

pleasing and all perfectionism and all that

kind of stuff.

195

:: 11:27

So did you change over time naturally or was

it intentional?

196

:: 11:32

Did you one day or in a season think, you know

what, I'm going to stop doing this because

197

:: 11:37

it's not helping me and it hasn't served me

well in the past and up till now so why should

198

:: 11:43

I continue doing that?

Was it?

199

:: 11:45

Edward: I think it was a bit of both Mary and

now that I haven't really thought about this

200

:: 11:50

too much.

201

:: 11:51

As I say, I'm instinctive.

202

:: 11:52

So I think meeting my wife, getting married,

gave me a lot of confidence and allowed me to

203

:: 11:59

be more instinctive about life.

204

:: 12:01

We all wanted a sense of belonging as human

205

:: 12:05

beings.

206

:: 12:05

And I suppose that security of meeting someone

207

:: 12:09

that you wanted to build a life with gave me

that kind of confidence.

208

:: 12:12

Not to be so analytical, to be more of a go

getter, more of a focused person.

209

:: 12:18

So for example, a year after getting married,

I decided that I wanted to be a racing driver.

210

:: 12:24

So I pursued racing for about five years,

doing the journalism as well and TV presenting

211

:: 12:32

as well for source of income.

212

:: 12:34

But I think that's when I really kind of

213

:: 12:37

changed quite a bit in terms of

procrastination, getting married gave me

214

:: 12:40

greater degree of confidence and focus on what

I really wanted to achieve.

215

:: 12:45

So it was a conscious thing, but it was also a

life stage then as well.

216

:: 12:49

Yeah.

217

:: 12:50

Marylayo: So you mentioned about not worrying

so much, not looking to please people.

218

:: 12:57

What tips or advice would you give to someone

who's struggling with procrastination now?

219

:: 13:03

Because like, what you've said makes sense,

but it's not so easy, just no, of course not.

220

:: 13:08

So what kind of tips or advice would you give

to someone who's struggling with

221

:: 13:13

procrastination?

222

:: 13:14

Edward: I know it sounds very bland and tripe,

but I think 90% of the things people fear

223

:: 13:20

never happen and yeah, if not more than 90%.

224

:: 13:24

And so I just think that I had a conversation

225

:: 13:27

with my wife the other day and I just said

that I refuse to be fearful about stuff

226

:: 13:31

anymore.

227

:: 13:32

But I'm a Christian, I get a lot of strength

228

:: 13:35

from my faith and relationship with God and

praying and worshiping and talking.

229

:: 13:40

And so that gives me a sense of peace,

confidence and calm in life.

230

:: 13:45

I know that not everyone will like the way I

am or the way I do things, but I really feel

231

:: 13:50

that the most important thing is to be at

peace with God.

232

:: 13:54

If he gives me the freedom to make decisions

and choices, then I feel cool with that and so

233

:: 14:00

I think that everyone will find their own way

to deal with it.

234

:: 14:03

But one thing I'll say is that don't be afraid

of making mistakes, don't be afraid of not

235

:: 14:08

getting it perfect.

236

:: 14:09

I used to be a bit of a perfectionist in

237

:: 14:12

different ways.

238

:: 14:13

I'm more relaxed now.

239

:: 14:14

I realize through life and through experiences

that only God is perfect.

240

:: 14:21

We can strive for excellence, but to strive

for perfection as fallen human beings is a bit

241

:: 14:28

nonsensical.

242

:: 14:29

Excellence is a high goal to aim for and

243

:: 14:32

perfection to a degree is a good goal to aim

for because we never reach it.

244

:: 14:38

Who's a perfect mate or husband or wife or

brother or sister?

245

:: 14:43

It's very rare, doesn't exist, does it?

So I think that practically make practical

246

:: 14:48

steps to do things that you don't like and not

engage in the feeling that it brings you have

247

:: 14:55

in your armory mentally to just not get into

negative feelings about yourself, about the

248

:: 15:01

process or the situation you're in.

249

:: 15:03

I think it's attitude of mind and it's not

250

:: 15:06

easy, easily done it can be done 100%.

251

:: 15:09

It can be done exactly.

252

:: 15:11

Marylayo: Well, Edward, I want to really thank

you for sharing and giving us insight and

253

:: 15:17

practical advice, really, when it comes to

procrastination.

254

:: 15:20

Thanks for joining us on Mary Liar Talks.

255

:: 15:23

Hope to see you soon.

256

:: 15:24

Edward: Thank you.

257

:: 15:29

Marylayo: A couple of pieces of advice that

Edward shared was to do with attitude and a

258

:: 15:34

mindset of not worrying.

259

:: 15:36

So here's a spiritual wellness tip that you

260

:: 15:38

can meditate on.

261

:: 15:40

One of them is Proverbs, chapter 23, verse

262

:: 15:43

seven, which reads as a man thinks in his

heart, so is he.

263

:: 15:49

And the other is Philippians, chapter four,

verses six to seven, and it reads.

264

:: 15:54

Marylayo: Don'T worry about anything.

265

:: 15:57

Instead, pray about everything.

266

:: 15:59

Tell God what you need and thank.

267

:: 16:01

Marylayo: Him for all he has done.

268

:: 16:03

Then you will experience God's peace, which

269

:: 16:06

exceeds anything we can understand.

270

:: 16:08

His peace will guard your hearts and minds as

271

:: 16:11

you live in Christ Jesus.

272

:: 16:14

Edward: You.

273

:: 16:22

Marylayo: Thank you for listening.

274

:: 16:24

Do follow and join me again next time on Mary

275

:: 16:27

Layo Talks beyond the Smile our.