Three is not a Crowd

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Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a podcast that discusses mental health and

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spiritual wellbeing, before we jump in, there may be episodes that are particularly

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sensitive to some listeners, and if that applies, then I.

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Hope you'll be able to join me.

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Whenever you feel ready and able.

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You it.

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Today's episode is with guest Samiat Foronzo.

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Who, when growing up, was fostered in an unusual way known as farming.

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So I started off by asking her, what's farming?

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So farming, that kind of term.

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I only really got introduced to it when a

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friend of mine said to me, oh, have you seen this film that came out?

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And I said, no, it's called farming.

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And I said, it sounds like your story.

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So I went to have a look to see what the film was about and it was about this Nigerian boy

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who was given to a white family in Tilbury, in Essex, not far from where I was fostered.

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And it's his experience of his life with that family.

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And so when talking to other people randomly, it seemed like farming was a thing back then,

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which I didn't really realize.

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So, yeah, it's only recently I've come

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accustomed to knowing what okay, what farming isn't.

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Actually, I was farmed.

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Really?

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Do you know what, when I first heard that term, and it was only recently, I kind of

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thought, that sounds like a bod name.

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Think of I don't know if it's cattle or

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agricultural, whatever it is.

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So I only found out when I was in my adult

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years that my older brother and sister had actually been, let's call it farmed.

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And the way it was even casually mentioned by my mum was a shock to me because I just didn't

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know that they'd been fostered.

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And I remember her saying that she went there

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unexpectedly to the house where they were staying and she found them in a bit of a

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state, so it looked like they weren't actually taken care of, so she basically took them out.

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Let's find out a little bit more about what led to you being fostered privately.

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So my parents came to this country in the late, early 819.

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So the plan had been for my dad to bring my mom here because she had some family here and

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then he was going to go to the state and do some studying for a time.

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And so while my mom was here, she needed to work.

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And the place where she was staying with family was quite small, so she was looking for

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somebody that could look after me.

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So I think it was an auntie of Herder told her

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that she knew someone had done a similar thing, so she could ask to see if there was a

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family that she knew that could look after me.

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And so I think family spoke to the people they

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knew and got into contact with a family.

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And my mom went down to go and visit that

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family in Essex with my granddad and my auntie, and everyone seemed to like each

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other.

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And so, as the story goes, it was my foster

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mum, she's going, oh, can we take her today? And my mom was like, oh, no, we can't.

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She hasn't got no clothes.

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We'll come back next week.

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They love you that much.

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Everybody seemed to get along.

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And it's when I hear that story, I was like,

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okay, so nowadays they do DBS checks and you have to go through all these checks.

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So none of that.

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It was just when I think about my experience

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and how I was placed with my foster parents, I was like, God, you were looking out for me

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from the very beginning kind of thing, because I could have been placed anywhere.

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There's so many stories I've heard.

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So, yeah, that's how I ended up with my wife.

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And how old was you at the time?

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I was six months.

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A little bit older than six months to very young.

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Yeah, I guess.

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What was life like being fostered?

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So when I think about it and I think about my memories of that time, I think of

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very happy times.

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For me, it was like it's like this was normal

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to me.

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Having two sets of parents was normal for me.

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So I didn't see it was like anything like, oh, I'm different to anybody else.

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This was just how my life was.

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And I'm not one to I think that's my nature,

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to pick out things.

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So it was normal for me to have white parents.

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And my mom would come down on every other Sunday on the train, so I called her Mummy

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Train, and she would come down and she'd visit us and she'd do my hair and bring Jammie

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Dodgers.

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So I always knew after that, and that's what I

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remember always.

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She was always in our lives.

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It wasn't like, oh, Mum wasn't there because she came down every two weeks.

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It was just normal to have her there.

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And we'd have roast dinner, and she would tell

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me, I always remember when I have a roast.

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I think about those times when Jackie and

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Paul, that was my foster parents, made me a roast.

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And she would sit down and watch some period drama on the TV.

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So never now when she sees period drama, it always just reminds me of that time.

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It was a pleasant time, and it was just normal to me.

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So basically every fortnight, your biological mom, your mom would come and visit.

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So she was always consistently and regularly there in your life, and that was just part and

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parcel of life, having two sets of parents.

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Was you also in contact with your dad?

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Not as much.

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And he was overseas, I guess.

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Right.

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So did you have your own time with your mum, or was it always when she came to visit that

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you guys spent time together with your foster parents?

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So on the holidays, so Easter and Christmas and summer holidays, we would go

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back to visit with my mum and stay with her uncle.

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So we'd all just pile into the house with my cousins.

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So those were always happy times because I'll be able to play with my cousins around the

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holidays.

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So, yeah, we did get to spend alone time with

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her, which was nice.

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It was nice and it was difficult because there

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was a transition there.

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But I feel like it allowed me to know about

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parts of my culture.

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It wasn't like I never knew about where I came

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from and my culture.

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So it was kind of like having two mes.

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Yeah. So what were your rather positive, happy memories that you can remember

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from that time?

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Well, I think when I think about it, simple things.

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My first dad had an allotment and I always enjoyed going with him to go to the allotment

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or going to the dump, because that was always fun, because if we went to the dump to go and

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take up rubbish, that means that we could come back by the horses.

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And then I would say, dad, can we feed the horses?

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He'd always say, that okay, we can feed the horses.

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And he would teach me how to put my hand out so that the horse doesn't bite your fingers

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and feed horses apples.

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It was those kind of things.

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Just simple things, like baking cakes with Mum in the kitchen or Mum teaching me how to walk

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around them sitting room and exposing me to people like music that if I'd grown up just

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with my Nigerian family, I would not know about.

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People like Connie Francis and Zillow Black and learning.

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Like, it was like being in two different cultures, right.

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So it was very rich, but also difficult sometimes to transition between the two.

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And I get that because I guess being born and brought up in the UK, very exposed

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to, obviously, UK culture, but then also growing up in a Nigerian household where we

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didn't really follow culture too much, but enough to really know and be familiar with how

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to respect elders and those kind of traditional ways.

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So I get that.

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Probably not as much as you, because you were,

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I guess, in the deep thick of it, but I guess that comes with just the enrichment in your

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life in terms of your experience of having those two experiences.

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One of the things you mentioned to us about that transition in terms of the two cultures,

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I don't know if you've seen it, there's this TV show, it's not running now.

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It turned.

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It's called this is us.

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Okay, do you know where I'm going with it? Yes.

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There's this guy, one of the characters, Randall, and he was adopted into this loving

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white household.

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But he did feel different because he didn't

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look like his siblings, he didn't look like his parents.

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Was that your experience as well? Or am I just fantasizing and basing it on this

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TV show?

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It's funny you say that because it was my aunt that said, oh, you got to watch

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this program because this is us.

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There's a guy in there and it reminds me of

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you.

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Yeah.

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So I did.

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I watched it.

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And there are similarities because there is the thing about my head didn't flick like

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everybody else, flick side to side.

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And I remember trying to put in a towel on my

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head and pretending, so I want my head to flick too.

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All the love was there.

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But there were slight differences.

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There was differences in the culture, in the differences in how we kind of like my

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biological mum, how we greet people and things like that, and the respect aspect and then

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having to like, okay, switch this up in your head.

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And you can just go back to what I call the normal way of life, where there isn't all

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these kind of practical protocols and things like that.

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So mom and dad in Essex, they were very kind of protective of us.

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And so I feel like that love cocooned us.

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And it's amazing when you have been given that

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love how much more confident you feel as an individual because knowing that you've always

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got somewhere that you belong or people that will have your back.

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I could see similarities with the program in regards to the hair, like how managed, how to

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do my hair.

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And she tried, bless her, I remember the

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hairstyles that she would try and do for me.

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You'd plat one bit because she didn't know how

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to do cornwork.

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There was things that was challenging for

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them, I guess, as well as for us.

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But how aware were you in terms of your family set up from a very young age, so I

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guess going to school, like how parents would drop off their children, how aware were you

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that your background family set up was different and that wasn't the norm or when did

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it click? I don't know if there was that click, really.

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I don't know if it ever did.

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It was just us.

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Maybe mom and dad did.

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Maybe they experienced it from their family,

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but maybe it's just because I've got such happy memories of that time of people or as a

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child.

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Maybe you don't notice things in that way.

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Just sounds like you didn't really have any or many negative experiences in terms

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of feeling different.

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I think it's more so when I came back and spent time with my mom, I realized

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how different we were because growing up with mom and dad in Essex, we did everything like

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they did.

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And so when we would come back and spend time

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with my cousins and my aunties and uncles, it was like, oh, why don't you do this or don't

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you do that? But when the language was spoken, we didn't

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understand it.

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So that was difficult, then I knew, like, oh,

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we're different.

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That's where I felt they're different because

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we didn't go to school with them, or we would say when people would come out, oh, yeah,

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they're going back to the nanny, and all that kind of thing.

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And that's when that was highlighted for me, not so much when I was with my foster parents,

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more so when I was with my mom, because that was different, because we didn't spend all of

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our time with her.

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So that pattern of from six months old to how old was she?

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Was it nine? That was regular life.

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And then came that time when you moved permanently with your mum.

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Do you actually remember that day when you yeah, right, okay, talk us through that.

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And were you even prepared? Did you know beforehand?

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I always remember that day because if you know, like, when you have landmark

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moments so it was the end of a six week holiday and we're all getting prepared to go

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back home.

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And by that six weeks, by the end, I was ready

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to go back home because we've had all our fun time and I just want to get back because I had

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my own room, my sister, and it was like I was looking forward to going back to start with my

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new my new year in my school.

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And I was going to get a teacher that I really

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liked.

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And I remember it and it's like, oh, yeah, I'm

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going to be in year five and I'm going to have such and such teacher, and I'm really excited

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to have her because she's a really good teacher.

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And I'll go back and tell everybody how my summer holidays was.

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And I missed my mum and dad in Essex terribly.

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So it was always a relief to be able to go

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back.

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Go back to the norm.

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Yeah, go back to the norm.

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And then I don't know who told us it was my

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cousins, actually, it wasn't even my mom.

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It was my cousin that said, you guys are not

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going home.

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I said, what do you mean we're not going back?

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No, you're not going back, you're staying here.

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And then I remember them sending my older sister to go and telephone my foster parents,

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they're not coming home, they're not coming back.

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And I thought, we both thought that we're never going to see each other again.

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And I just remember crying and crying and crying, but I couldn't show anybody my tears

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because to me, by showing them my tears, it was like saying I didn't want to be here, I

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didn't want to be with my mom.

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And why do you want to upset her?

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To make her feel like you don't want to be with her?

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So all of that was like, hidden? I hid it, but it was really painful, of

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course.

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Was that the same with your siblings, then?

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Did they hide it as well?

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It was just the three of us at the time.

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My older sister, she knew about it, she always knew that summer, so it wasn't a shock to her.

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My younger brother was three or four at the time, so I don't think he really understood

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what was happening.

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Only later when he asked me, when are we going

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back home?

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Right.

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And it was hard for him because he would just cry at night.

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Okay, so I guess there were like three different responses.

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But your older sister, she already knew, so she was more prepared and therefore maybe not

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so much of an outward reaction.

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There was yourself that didn't have that

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outward reaction, but you were unprepared, but you kept it I'm not saying your sister didn't

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keep it in.

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And then your younger brother, because he was

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so young, he expressed it openly.

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But I can understand, of course, how hard it

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was for not just yourselves, but also for your parents, your foster parents and probably even

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your mum, just knowing that transition and how to manage it.

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Yeah. I think it was devastating for mom and dad in Essex.

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I know afterwards she'd speak about her having a breakdown after it happened kind of thing,

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because she didn't think that she was going to see us again.

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So it was heartbreaking for them because we had been their kids for so long.

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That means you spoke to them after you moved back permanently with your mum,

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biological mum.

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So how did you maintain or get back in terms

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of that relationship with your foster parents?

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I don't know the specifics of it, but I think it must have been two.

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Moms must have spoken or my sister must have spoken with them, because I think the reason

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why they didn't let them know there was a big fear factor with my mom and with that side of

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the family that if they had told them we wasn't coming, they wouldn't let us go because

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they could see how much they loved us.

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So I think that was their biggest fear.

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So once they realized that there was no substance in that fear kind of thing, that

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that necessarily wasn't going to be the case, then that allowed for the communication to

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flow.

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I think it was maybe the following summer

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where we got to go back.

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So now it was a sure, yeah, we went to mom and

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dad for summer holidays, easter and Christmas in Essex, and we lived our lives with Mum

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here.

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Right, okay.

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And that was how it was every year.

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Yeah, okay.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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That's interesting.

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Balmy in it, but it just sounds.

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Like, okay, I get it now, actually.

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I get it.

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I get how roles have reversed in a sense, and how it then made sense to keep that

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communication, that relationship, but the other way around.

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And I guess it was always from day one, I guess, or I'm imagining that that was always

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going to be the plan that you and your siblings would permanently move with your mum?

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It was just the when, I guess, and that when came when you were about nine years old.

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I didn't realize that.

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I thought this was always going to be no, I

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was going to go to school here, go to secondary school here, I was going to get more

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job here.

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That thought never entered, I don't think, my

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mind, that that was going to change.

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I think that's why it was so hard to leave

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them.

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And how did you then learn or grow to just accept that change?

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Because that's a significant change, I think.

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Well, we've grown up in Nigerian households, isn't it?

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So it's a lot different to how it is now, where the communication is more so between

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parents and their children.

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Back then, children, when you didn't

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necessarily have that dialogue with your parents, children where you sit down, you read

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your book, you make yourself practically invisible so that they don't come and trouble

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you and tell you to do chores and whatnot, or you get in trouble.

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So it was kind of like just being if I just could hide and hide myself away from kind of

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trying to run away from the situation, making my own world, that's what I felt like I did,

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to kind of cope with it.

Marylayo: 00:17:30

And naturally, I'm a person that's always

Marylayo: 00:17:32

looked at the positive sides.

Marylayo: 00:17:34

And I didn't realize that this was something

Marylayo: 00:17:35

that is just, I think, innate, because Milesman would say, you're oblivious to

Marylayo: 00:17:38

everything.

Marylayo: 00:17:40

You see that?

Marylayo: 00:17:40

Didn't you see that? And I'm like, not necessarily, because I'm not

Marylayo: 00:17:44

looking for a hiccup, I'm not looking for a bad thing, I'm not looking for something.

Marylayo: 00:17:48

I like things that are nice, I like to concentrate on things that are nice and it

Marylayo: 00:17:52

will give me joy.

Marylayo: 00:17:53

So I guess even back then, that was like a

Marylayo: 00:17:57

coping mechanism of concentrating on the good aspects of things.

Marylayo: 00:18:02

Yeah, I get it.

Marylayo: 00:18:03

You're an optimist, basically.

Marylayo: 00:18:04

Yes.

Marylayo: 00:18:06

And what do you think your fostering background, how do you think it shaped you as

Marylayo: 00:18:13

a person? Or do you think it shaped you as a person?

Marylayo: 00:18:16

Almost definitely tolerance.

Marylayo: 00:18:19

Tolerance for different cultures, tolerance

Marylayo: 00:18:21

for different experiences, where people have come from, knowing that you can love anybody,

Marylayo: 00:18:27

doesn't matter if they come from you or not.

Marylayo: 00:18:30

But it's very funny how for me and my younger

Marylayo: 00:18:33

brother, who were basically with them from when we were babies, I'm very much like my

Marylayo: 00:18:38

foster mom used to be, and my brother is very much like my foster dad.

Marylayo: 00:18:43

And I see things that my brother does, like, gosh, you're just like dad.

Marylayo: 00:18:46

Just like dad doesn't like to spend money.

Marylayo: 00:18:49

Very thrifty kind of thing.

Marylayo: 00:18:51

Buyers will buy loads of clothes, but don't wear them and put them in a wardrobe and still

Marylayo: 00:18:55

wear holy ones.

Marylayo: 00:18:55

Sorry, Len.

Marylayo: 00:18:56

Sorry.

Marylayo: 00:18:57

I'm exposing you.

Marylayo: 00:19:00

Yeah.

Marylayo: 00:19:01

And I think being fostered made me just have

Marylayo: 00:19:06

that more tolerance and love and compassion for people, where they've come from kind of

Marylayo: 00:19:15

thing.

Marylayo: 00:19:16

And knowing that not everybody has.

Marylayo: 00:19:23

A.

Marylayo: 00:19:24

Certain way of being brought up.

Marylayo: 00:19:25

It can be looked different and it doesn't mean

Marylayo: 00:19:27

that it's wrong.

Marylayo: 00:19:27

It can look all different ways and able to

Marylayo: 00:19:30

navigate in different cultures with different people as well.

Marylayo: 00:19:35

Yeah.

Marylayo: 00:19:35

You know how you had, let's just say, those two worlds in terms of the two

Marylayo: 00:19:39

cultures that you were in, do you think that over time you've been able to merge the two

Marylayo: 00:19:46

together or float in between or them not being so siloed more effortlessly as time's gone on?

Marylayo: 00:19:55

I think so.

Marylayo: 00:19:55

I think I'm a lot better.

Marylayo: 00:19:57

I used to find going into an environment where

Marylayo: 00:20:01

the Nigerian culture is very prevalent, quite hard for me, just because also because of my

Marylayo: 00:20:05

nature as well.

Marylayo: 00:20:06

It always seemed very harsh.

Marylayo: 00:20:08

Harsher and only through growing up I realized that it's not harsher or harder, that it's

Marylayo: 00:20:14

just different.

Marylayo: 00:20:14

Okay, that's a nice way.

Marylayo: 00:20:15

I can see why you mentioned being an optimist.

Marylayo: 00:20:19

It's different because I guess when I first went back to Nigeria, it clicked and I

Marylayo: 00:20:25

realized that I understand why we as a people can be like that.

Marylayo: 00:20:30

Because you have to fight for everything.

Marylayo: 00:20:31

You have to fight for your space, even on the

Marylayo: 00:20:33

road, because it's so busy, it's not easy.

Marylayo: 00:20:37

So if you want to get something, you have to

Marylayo: 00:20:40

fight for it.

Marylayo: 00:20:42

And that means that there's a power within

Marylayo: 00:20:45

side of you to be able to survive.

Marylayo: 00:20:47

Because we are survivors, there's a lot of

Marylayo: 00:20:49

things that we've had to overcome.

Marylayo: 00:20:52

So I understand why that is.

Marylayo: 00:20:55

But I guess I think living with my mom, I got to see now, not just the harshness, but I

Marylayo: 00:21:02

think it's the first time I saw her cry and I was just like, wow, you cry?

Marylayo: 00:21:06

Yes, they cry and feel as well.

Marylayo: 00:21:11

It's just the process of emotions is different

Marylayo: 00:21:14

to how I would recognize them, but it doesn't mean that they don't have them.

Marylayo: 00:21:17

Sure. Yeah. So lastly, so if someone is actually struggling, let's just say they're

Marylayo: 00:21:23

coming from two different backgrounds or they are in two different worlds, let's put it that

Marylayo: 00:21:29

way.

Marylayo: 00:21:29

And then maybe they're struggling with

Marylayo: 00:21:30

belonging or feeling different or they're having to overcome some sort of transition, a

Marylayo: 00:21:38

sharp transition.

Marylayo: 00:21:39

Do you have any advice or tips that you've had

Marylayo: 00:21:44

to follow yourself or you've learnt over time or maybe you're even still learning that you

Marylayo: 00:21:50

could share to others?

Marylayo: 00:21:52

I think having grace for yourself and knowing that it's okay to feel the way

Marylayo: 00:21:56

that you feel and just really recognizing that I'm feeling this way.

Marylayo: 00:22:00

I think I try to escape a lot of the times from my feelings.

Marylayo: 00:22:04

I used to read a lot so going into books and stories and that was a great coping mechanism

Marylayo: 00:22:09

at the time, but didn't really deal with the trauma of it.

Marylayo: 00:22:13

So just recognizing and owning where you're at and being able to identify and just giving

Marylayo: 00:22:20

yourself the grace to process it.

Marylayo: 00:22:22

And I think for me, knowing that I belong with

Marylayo: 00:22:25

Christ has just helped me to feel loved and accepted, regardless of which world I think I

Marylayo: 00:22:32

belong to.

Marylayo: 00:22:33

I belong to him.

Marylayo: 00:22:34

I found my identity in Him.

Marylayo: 00:22:36

And so that has also just helped me to feel

Marylayo: 00:22:39

that it's okay.

Marylayo: 00:22:41

I still, even now, don't feel like I quite fit

Marylayo: 00:22:43

here, I don't quite fit there.

Marylayo: 00:22:46

But it's okay because that's what good purpose

Marylayo: 00:22:49

for me to be.

Marylayo: 00:22:50

And because I don't fit necessarily quite so

Marylayo: 00:22:53

neatly, I'm able to do things that others might not be able to do because they do fit so

Marylayo: 00:22:59

neatly.

Marylayo: 00:22:59

Right kind of thing.

Marylayo: 00:23:01

So there's a reason for your journey and it's finding out what that reason is so

Marylayo: 00:23:07

that your purpose can be fulfilled.

Marylayo: 00:23:09

And it's in that fulfillment you find the joy,

Marylayo: 00:23:10

the happiness and the healing.

Marylayo: 00:23:12

That's what I would say.

Marylayo: 00:23:13

Yeah. That's beautiful.

Marylayo: 00:23:15

Thanks, Sammy.

Marylayo: 00:23:15

Thanks so much for sharing your story and those words.

Marylayo: 00:23:20

So thanks to you and also to everyone who's listening.

Marylayo: 00:23:23

Thanks for joining me on Mary Liar Talks.

Marylayo: 00:23:26

Hope to see you soon.

Marylayo: 00:23:31

Sammy mentioned about belonging to God, so here's a spiritual wellness tip that

Marylayo: 00:23:36

you can meditate on.

Marylayo: 00:23:37

It's John, chapter one, verses twelve to 13

Marylayo: 00:23:41

and reads but all who believed Him and accepted Him, he gave the right to become

Marylayo: 00:23:48

children of God.

Marylayo: 00:23:49

They are reborn not with a physical birth

Marylayo: 00:23:53

resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.

Marylayo: 00:24:07

Thank you for listening.

Marylayo: 00:24:09

Do follow, follow and join me again.

Marylayo: 00:24:11

Next time on Marylayo Talks beyond the Smile.