Finding Your Career
Summary
In this episode of "Beyond the Smile" with host MaryLayo, we delve into the intricacies of finding not just a job, but a fulfilling career that aligns with one's interests and talents. Career and talent strategist Stephen Shortt, CEO of Career Fit, unpacks the importance of job satisfaction and how it contributes to overall happiness and good mental health.
Listeners will explore the idea of passion versus enjoyment in career choice, the growing phenomenon of career burnout, and the evolving landscape of jobs that may not even exist yet. Stephen Short emphasises the value of career guidance in schools and how parental expectations can shape—and sometimes limit—a child's career aspirations.
The episode also discusses how individuals can navigate career transitions, whether early in their work life or in their later years. It reassures those at career crossroads that happiness in their profession is not just attainable but deserved.
Concluding with a touch of spiritual wellness, MaryLayo offers a reflective tip from Psalm 37, inviting listeners to join her next time for more insights on mental health and spiritual wellbeing. Take a moment and delve into what may be 'beyond the smile'. Remember to follow, like and share if you enjoyed the discussion on the critical relationship between career satisfaction and overall life satisfaction.
For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.
#BeyondTheSmilePodcast #FindYourCareerPath #PassionVersusEnjoyment #MaryLayoTalks #MentalHealth #SpiritualHealth
Timestamps
(00:00:01) Introduction to Mental Health and Spiritual Well-being
(00:00:45) Aligning Career with Interests
(00:04:01) The Cost of Misaligned Career Choices
(00:14:11) Career Guidance in Irish Schools
(00:16:31) Teen Readiness for Career Choices
(00:18:32) Future of Work Discussion in Schools
(00:24:49) Multiple Career Changes in a Lifetime
(00:26:01) Insights from the eBook 'Your Next Career'
(00:30:09) Transforming Passion into Career
(00:33:47) Identifying a Career Focus
(00:36:01) Biannual Career Trends Update
(00:38:30) Advice for Career Crossroads
(00:41:52) Spiritual Wellness Tip: Psalm Chapter 37
Guest details:
As a Career & Talent Strategist, Stephen is deeply committed to helping individuals and organisations in devising and achieving their career aspirations through a blend of career counselling, talent assessment, and strategic planning. His work with ETC Consult, CareerFit, Talent Select, Successful Succession, Delta Events and Distributed Training is centred around helping to match the right people with the right careers. Stephen’s upcoming books, “Your Future Career” and “Your Next Career,” are further examples of his commitment to helping others at different stages of their career journeys. “Your Future Career” is geared towards students and young professionals, while “Your Next Career” offers guidance for those seeking to change or enhance their career paths.
Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tips:
- Meditate on Bible scripture: Psalm 37:23-24
- Meditate on song: Open My Heart, Yolanda Adams
Transcript
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::Speaker A: Welcome to beyond the smile with
me, MaryLayo, a podcast that discusses mental
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::health and spiritual wellbeing.
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::If you like what you hear, please do remember
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::to follow and share.
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::But before we jump in, there may be episodes
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::that are particularly sensitive for some
listeners.
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::And if that applies, then I hope you'll join
me whenever you feel ready and able.
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::In today's episode, I'm talking to career and
talent strategist Stephen Short, who, as CEO
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::of Career Fit, is on a mission to make the
world a better place with happy people in
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::fulfilling, rewarding careers.
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::I first asked Stephen why it was so crucial
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::for individuals to find a career that truly
aligns with their interests and aptitudes.
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::Let's join in the conversation.
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::Speaker B: Well, I mean, you're going to spend
most of your adult life, you're going to spend
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::most of your waking days in your career.
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::You're going to be working on something.
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::I mean, the normal office hour, the normal
traditional office hours, from nine to five or
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::eight to six or whatever it is.
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::Between sleeping, traveling, you'll spend more
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::time with your colleagues than you'll spend
with your family when you really break it down
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::and think about it.
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::So why would you spend your time doing
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::something that makes you miserable or doesn't
fulfill you, just to try and squeeze some of
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::those bits of fulfillment out in the couple of
hours that you have?
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::Outside of that, my contention is that people
in general are happier doing something that
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::they enjoy doing and are more productive doing
that thing.
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::Whether they might be saying, okay, I can be
an engineer and make 100,000 a year, or I can
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::be a podcast host and a consultant to make
80,000 a year, but I'm actually doing the
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::stuff that I love doing.
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::So rather than chasing that extra 20,000 and
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::being miserable for the year, I can do
something I'm passionate about and feel the
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::energy of it.
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::So my thing is always find what you're
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::interested in, find what you're good at.
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::Spend your time doing that, but don't follow
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::your passion.
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::Speaker A: Don't follow your passion.
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::Did you say?
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::Speaker B: No. So this is stuff that I hear a
lot.
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::It's really well meaning, it's well meaning
advice, and the idea behind it is absolutely
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::correct.
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::Find something that you're passionate about
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::and continue doing.
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::But unfortunately, for a lot of people, when
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::they hear the phrase follow your passion,
you'll never work a day in your life.
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::They start to think about the things that
they're passionate about, which tend to be
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::their hobies, their outlets, their ways of
doing the things that they enjoy doing.
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::And then when they try to make that pay their
bills, then it stops being enjoyable, it stops
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::being an outlet.
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::It stops being a way of venting, and it starts
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::to be something which they have to put lots of
time and energy into.
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::And then they don't even have that thing as an
outlet when they get stressed from work.
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::So for me, it's not follow your passion.
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::For me, it's find out what you're passionate
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::about in a professional context and go do that
and then still have your passions, whether
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::that's archery or pottery or playing cards or
movies or whatever, have those areas as well.
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::And those are your passions.
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::But find something that you're passionate
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::about doing and that you're interested in and
you're good at.
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::Speaker A: Okay, that's quite an interesting
take.
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::And it does make sense, actually, because I
learned the hard way, and that was one of my
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::first, or it was my first adult lesson,
because I was so miserable in the work that I
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::was doing at the time.
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::And I thought to myself, I want to do
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::something where I'm not miserable at work, I'm
not miserable going to work.
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::I'm not miserable after work because I know
that I'm going to have to go to the same work
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::the next day.
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::I need to do some things that I'm actually
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::going to enjoy and have that interest in.
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::So kind of leading to that, what are the
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::common signs that you've come across that
someone's in a career that doesn't truly align
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::with their strengths, it doesn't align with
their passions, or let's call it interest.
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::Speaker B: Yeah. The quickest and the easiest
thing to see is burnout.
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::I mean, people get burnt out really quickly
because they not only have the energy that
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::they're putting into doing their job and doing
their job well, because most of the people who
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::are doing these jobs, they're still highly
professional, they're still very dedicated
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::people.
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::They're doing everything they can to be
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::successful in the job, but then also trying to
keep up that energy or not have that outlet to
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::be reinvigorated and inspired by what you're
doing or from outside or having enough time to
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::have that work life balance where you're able
to follow all of your passions outside, you
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::don't have that.
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::So you expend even more energy and work doing
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::something to a certain degree, but really
having to force yourself into doing it.
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::So you get burnt out really quickly, which
leads to we've all seen people who have, like,
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::we all have this kind of jar of dealing with
stress and dealing with anger and dealing with
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::annoyance.
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::And when the level is quite low, we can
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::tolerate all kinds of stuff, and we can not
flip out and not shout at other people or not
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::lose it with our spouses or our partners or
whatever, but when that starts to get higher
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::and higher, we've seen people, we've all seen
people like this in our life where a little
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::thing will just set them off because their
level of stress is already so high.
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::And the reason that their level of stress can
be so high is because they're not only doing
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::the stress of the job, but also the stress of
forcing themselves to care about the job or
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::forcing themselves to push through the job.
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::So their tension and their stress is higher
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::and higher, which means that they explode much
quicker and they get burnt out and they get
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::frustrated and they get annoyed and they get
grumpy and they get depressed.
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::And it's just a horrible spiral of a place to
be in.
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::Speaker A: So given that, especially when it
comes to young people, given that schools,
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::even universities, their role is to equip
students to understand and work out and be
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::prepared for careers or potential career
paths.
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::So how can schools, how can universities, how
can those educational establishments, how can
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::they better equip students, really, when it
comes to that?
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::Speaker B: So, again, this is something we see
all the time.
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::It's very well meaning and it's very
structured.
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::And when you think about why schools were set
up originally in the day, schools were set up
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::like factories, to train people to work in
factories, but we don't do that anymore.
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::So the world that schools are training people
for now, they're not the same as the world
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::that schools were training people for when the
system of education and school systems were
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::set up.
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::And there's a great talk by Sir Ken Robinson.
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::He's passed away now.
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::He's TED talks where.
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::He talks about, really, the only thing that
these kids have in common with each other as
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::they're going through school is they're
manufactured by date.
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::So their date of birth or they're stamped.
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::They come in, they go through 18 years of
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::college, 16 years of college, whatever, and
school, they're stamped with a created on
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::date, and then they're off in the world.
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::But we all know people in school that were
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::brilliant at some subjects and not good at
some subjects, or there are different schools
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::that are looking at maybe streaming people in
different ways.
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::So instead of just classing them by their age,
they're starting to look at ways that they
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::might be able to class students by their
ability in that subject so some people might
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::take longer to click with mathematics, and
they struggle because they're just moving
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::through the years, whether they click with it
or not.
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::And they're just at a lower level.
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::And then you're on the scrap, not on the scrap
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::feet, but you're not living up to your
potential.
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::The other thing that I see a lot, and it
causes an awful lot of burnout and it causes
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::an awful lot of stress and anxiety in
students, especially when they get to college,
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::is, well, you studied this in school, you were
good at this subject, history, politics,
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::mathematics, whatever.
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::So you should study that in college.
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::And then they go to college and they do the
course, and then they realize, I would
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::actually hate to do this on a day to day
basis.
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::I don't want to do this for my job.
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::I enjoy the subject, but it has no relevance
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::to what kinds of a career I want.
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::And we have people who, I've met so many, I
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::have actually, people on my team who studied
science, loved science, loved biology, but
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::actually hated the job of being a biologist
and hated the job of working in a lab.
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::But the bits about the science and the biology
that he really enjoyed, like the process and
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::the structure and following through and taking
an idea and following the steps and having all
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::that allows him to be amazing in our business
as our general manager, as our coo, because he
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::puts structure and puts orientation on the
business, and that's how he's finding a
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::rewarding career, doing things, elements that
he loves without necessarily having to do the
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::science of it and working in a lab.
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::Speaker A: Yeah, I get you.
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::In the sense that I too, kind of robotically
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::went for subjects because I was good at it.
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::But did I love it?
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::Did I see myself, for example, being in a lab
at the end of studying so many years in
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::pharmaceutical sciences?
Definitely not.
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::I get it.
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::And so I guess what you're saying is schools,
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::universities need to have a bit more a
comprehensive way of advising students, not
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::just necessarily by subject, but basically
almost like those transferable skills or
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::natural graces that those students will have,
and to look more widely rather than this
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::subject, that subject.
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::Speaker B: My mantra with students is always
career over course.
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::So what's the end goal of the career at career
fit?
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::Like, we help people at all levels.
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::We have a whole package for schools with
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::school dashboards where the school counselors
or the year heads can actually manage their
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::whole school and their whole class.
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::But we tell the students, we're not really
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::interested in the next four to five years of
your academic career.
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::We're interested in the next 45 years of your
actual career.
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::What's the ultimate career for you?
What's the ultimate career path for you?
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::And how can we reverse engineer that back to
today?
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::Whether that's subject choices or college
courses, or if you're already finished
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::college, how can you start looking at your
transferable skills and moving into that
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::direction that's more aligned with what you
want to do?
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::Because what we want to do is, and I think you
mentioned this already, I'm on a mission to
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::make the world a better place with happy
people in fulfilling, rewarding careers.
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::That's all I care about.
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::That's all I want to do.
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::And we do this from a career guidance point of
view.
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::We do this from a selection point of view.
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::But all I want to do is make sure that people
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::are in the right careers for them.
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::Because every career that exists, there are
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::ideal candidates for those careers.
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::There are people who would.
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::A career that you and I, or you might think,
and I might think is, jeez, that's so boring.
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::Who would want to do that?
There are very process driven people who
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::really enjoy those types of careers that maybe
more strategic or more long term thinking
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::people get bored by.
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::But then the people who are more strategic and
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::the people who are more process driven and
structure driven, they get really nervous and
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::anxious thinking about what's going to happen
in nine months time.
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::They don't want to think about nine months
time.
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::They want to think about nine weeks time.
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::So there are absolutely amazing places for the
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::right people to be able to work together and
to be able to gel together and complement each
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::other in a workplace.
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::And that's the ideal for me, to have a group
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::of people who are fulfilled and rewarded
working in the right direction.
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::Speaker A: So those who are career guidance
counselors, they have a very specific role,
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::almost like, I won't call it responsibility,
but certainly a role in guiding and shaping
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::and helping many students try and figure out
what are they going to do in their life when
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::they're older.
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::Speaker B: It's an ion impossible for a 16
year old.
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::And this is the other thing that I think
sometimes parents lose a bit of sense on that
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::with a 16 year old, you're asking them to go,
okay, what do you want to do in ten years
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::time?
They've only been on this planet for 16 years.
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::They've only really been able to think for
themselves for about five.
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::So you want them to take their entire five
years of life experience and double that into
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::the future without knowing anything about
really what's coming down the line or what the
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::world of work is actually going to be like.
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::So that's why career guidance counselors and
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::career guidance specialists and career
guidance tools and everything else are so
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::beneficial to people of that generation,
because they have no idea what kinds of
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::careers exist yet.
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::And there's plenty of times when people have
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::discovered their ideal career in their, they
go, my God, this is amazing.
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::And they've stumbled into it and they've found
their way to it.
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::And that's phenomenal.
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::But what if we can actually help these people
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::to find that career at an earlier stage?
Because we know what it takes to do well in
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::that career, what kind of interests are
required to be engaged in that career?
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::And we can actually start to showcase to
people, you know what you're thinking about
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::this, but actually just have a look at this
career and you drop down the career with the
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::description and they start reading the
description, oh my God, I didn't even know
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::that was a thing.
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::Like, how do I do that?
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::That's amazing.
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::And in career fit, we have a database of 1269
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::careers that exist in the world.
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::There are adults that don't know half of those
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::careers or a third of those careers or be able
to explain those careers.
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::So how is a 16 and 17 year old in 6th form or
in their final years of school before they go
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::to college, how are they going to know those
courses, or, sorry, those careers to know
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::which courses go into it?
So that's why having conversations with career
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::guidance counselors and having conversations
with people who specialize in this area is so
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::beneficial to people, to get themselves on the
right track, to be focused and happy as they
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::go into their professional career.
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::Speaker A: So, you know, Stephen, like X, many
years ago I was a beneficiary of a tool like
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::the one you're talking about.
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::So I know how valuable and helpful it was for
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::me.
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::So how regularly used are these types of tools
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::in schools, perhaps, or perhaps even in
colleges?
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::Yeah.
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::Speaker B: How common is it in Ireland, every
school, every secondary school, the equivalent
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::of a 6th form college, has a dedicated career
guidance counselor as part of the curriculum.
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::In the UK, you don't have that.
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::Now there is talks.
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::I was at an event in London a couple of weeks
ago and I did meet some people from the
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::mayor's office in London.
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::And I understand that Ofcom is really starting
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::to try and push that and use the irish model
as an example of how it can be superbly
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::beneficial to these young people to help them
get on the right track.
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::And for people who have no direction, once
they have a view of actually, that's what I
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::want to do.
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::It can help them to improve their studies,
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::improve their retention, because they see the
point of instead of just going, the world is
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::huge, I don't know what to do.
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::So I'm just going to drift.
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::When they actually have a direction and a
focus, they can align to it.
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::I'm going to be at a couple of events in
London again in the next couple of weeks, in
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::the next couple of months that are geared
towards secondary schools, because we can help
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::them to actually implement these things to get
their young people onto the right tracks for
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::them.
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::And it means that the career guidance
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::counselors and the teachers can actually spend
their time having much more in depth
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::conversations with the students about the
careers in the report, as opposed to trying to
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::juggle a norm table and another interest
inventory that they get online and something
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::else in their studies.
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::Whereas all of our psychometrics pull
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::everything into one place and one report so
they can have a conversation about that, to
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::have a really strong starting point.
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::Speaker A: So basically, depending on the
country where someone is based, will depend on
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::how easily they can access such a tool or even
person to help.
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::Speaker B: Mean, from our research in the UK,
there are hundreds if not thousands of people
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::who are counselors who can help with careers.
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::They might not have the same experience and
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::tools, but they can use our tool.
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::In Ireland, there are lots of career guidance
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::counselors.
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::In America, there are lots of career guidance
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::counselors.
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::Sometimes, though, people can.
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::I think people feel that they don't want go to
career grounds counselor.
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::They feel that they can figure it out on their
own, and they might, but it could take them
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::ten years instead of spending a couple of
hundred quid with somebody who knows exactly
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::what they're doing to help you to get on the
right path, to actually move you in the
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::direction to have a fulfilling, rewarding
career and be a happier person.
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::Speaker A: So, like earlier, you were talking
about how parents, they kind of need to
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::understand how almost like the child, their
child, their teenager may not be ready to
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::make, to be able to kind of say, this is what
I want to do.
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::Yes, this is the idea that I have in terms of
the direction I want to go in.
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::So how can parents almost, I won't say, take
their foot off the gas, because it is
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::important to have those conversations with
your child and try and steer them and support
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::them, direct them, perhaps.
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::So how can parents, what advice would you give
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::them in terms of not putting that pressure on
the child, but actually being that effective
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::ally, that supportive, almost like playing
that supportive role when it comes to their
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::kids and pursuing the right career path,
because that's a challenge.
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::Speaker B: Absolutely.
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::Now, some of it is.
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::Also, parents might have a preconceived idea
of what a successful career is, so they might
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::have an idea that actually you're going to
have to be a lawyer, or you're going to have
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::to be a doctor, or you're going to have to be
an engineer, and nothing else matters.
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::And they don't understand the concept of you
can actually make money and you can make a
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::very good living doing 100,000 different
things in this world.
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::There are podcasters who are making a load of
money.
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::Who'd have thought, when we were kids, now I'm
older than you, but when Super Mario first
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::came out and everybody was playing the
Nintendo's and not the Ataris, the game boys
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::and all these games, and parents go, oh,
nobody's going to pay.
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::Going, you're not going to make a living doing
that.
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::And now we see all these esports and people
who are making hundreds of thousands of euros
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::and pounds and dollars twitch streaming, and
because people are feeding that enjoyment.
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::So these are kind of careers that parents
don't even really know about, because it's not
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::their job to know about those careers.
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::So I give a talk in schools called what's the
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::future work?
And I list out ten different careers that
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::didn't exist when these students started
primary school.
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::So that's, I mean, they haven't even finished
school yet, but the jobs that the school is
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::purporting to prepare them for didn't exist
when they started school.
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::So like app developer, drone operator, even
social media influencer, none of that existed
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::ten years ago.
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::So these are careers that exist that can be
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::very fulfilling and rewarding for students,
but the parents might not see it.
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::The parents might see all those influencers,
all those people, they're just shaking their
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::backsides on social media or whatever, they
don't get the cultural concept of it.
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::So there can be unconscious biases in that.
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::And parents only want the best for their kids.
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::They only want them to be successful and happy
and all the rest of it, and maybe produce
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::grandkids or whatever it is, but it's well
meaning.
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::It's the same as follow your passion, never
work in day life.
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::It's extraordinarily well meaning, but it's
just not useful.
335
::So having that conversation, and with parents
as well, it can be their kids, especially at
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::1617, they're going through all this angst,
they're going through all this other
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::difficulty anyway, that if we actually
remember back to when we were 16 and 17, we
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::didn't want to talk to our parents about
anything either.
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::Speaker A: Definitely not.
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::Speaker B: So having the awareness that it's
not a detractor from your relationship with
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::your child to actually have a career guidance
counselor talk to them, and also maybe you
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::have a look at their report.
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::I remember we did a career guidance for a kid,
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::and referee was one of the careers that he got
because he had a massive interest in sport.
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::He did the ability and all the rest of it.
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::And one of the 16 careers on the report was
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::referee.
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::And his parents were extraordinarily insulted
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::that that was something and rang us and were
giving out yards, feet and inches to us.
350
::And at one point in the conversation we
actually said, have you spoken to your son
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::about this?
No, I haven't.
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::I've just read the reports.
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::Well, I tell you what, look, sit down with
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::your son and go through it, and then we'll
have a call in the next day or two and we'll
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::see what we do.
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::And if you want him to come back in and we can
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::do a rejig and we can do everything else.
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::And to be fair, the father rang us back two
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::days later and said, actually, the son has
shown me what a living people can make, how
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::much he enjoys it, what he would like doing,
because he doesn't want to be a football star,
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::but he likes the process and he likes all
this.
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::And he rang us back, actually, this sounds
like an ideal career for my son and a good
363
::career path for him to enjoy and make a decent
living out of.
364
::So there's all kinds of things that are out
there, and sometimes parents, not that they
365
::need to have, it's very difficult for them to
have the mentality of what is going to be
366
::facing their children as they go out into the
world.
367
::I had another conversation with a principal of
a school about his daughter who was in the
368
::final year of school, and he was saying that
she wants to do a course that just allowed
369
::whatever course and career she's picking, it's
to allow her to travel.
370
::And I was saying, okay, that's great, but
actually you're limiting a huge number of
371
::careers that you might enjoy that by the
nature of remote work and hybrid work.
372
::Now you can travel with those as well.
373
::So she was thinking about teacher and language
374
::teacher and things that were very specifically
in that educational sphere that allowed her to
375
::go from place to place.
376
::But actually you can be a web developer, a
377
::software person, you can be an engineer, you
can do all kinds of things with a laptop and a
378
::good Internet connection.
379
::The Bahamas is a great example of this.
380
::They're the first country in the world to
issue nomad visas where digital workers and
381
::remote workers could go to the Bahamas, not
have to register for local taxes and all the
382
::rest of it.
383
::They live based on their taxes in the country,
384
::their residence in.
385
::And all of this stuff is going to become just
386
::more and more prevalent.
387
::So a lot of the students that are in secondary
388
::school now and 6th form now, by the time they
finish college, the world of work is going to
389
::look drastically different from the world of
work that the parents knew, even post pre
390
::Covid.
391
::Speaker A: Like even just the other day I was
speaking to, I was having a conversation with
392
::someone who was talking about how they want to
basically do feather studies.
393
::They want to basically be a data analyst.
394
::Speaker B: Huge area.
395
::Speaker A: So then I was kind of thinking
about how wouldn't machines be doing that kind
396
::of work and taking out the human element in
terms of the need to do that analysis in the
397
::near future or not so distant future.
398
::The world of work is changing so much because
399
::of the technology advancements that we are now
seeing.
400
::It's evident.
401
::So how much of that should people be taking
402
::into consideration when they're thinking about
going on a course, maybe moving into a
403
::different career?
Especially when those roles, I'm not saying
404
::they're traditional, but they are somewhat
traditional.
405
::Speaker B: So when it comes to things like
data analytics and AI, first of all, I'm an AI
406
::optimist.
407
::I truly believe, like every other technology
408
::that has come out that people railed against,
that says going to replace jobs, I think that
409
::it will create more jobs than it removes.
410
::I think it will replace certain jobs the same
411
::way as the tractor when it first came out,
replaced a lot of jobs the first way that a
412
::computer replaced some jobs and people had to
be trained and people learned new ways of
413
::doing things.
414
::So I fully expect that there will be a
415
::plethora of new roles and new jobs that will
be somewhat niche and somewhat specialized,
416
::but there'll be branches of existing trees,
there'll be branches of existing career
417
::opportunities.
418
::Great example is a friend of mine is a
419
::sustainability specialist in a big company.
420
::She's in her late fifty s. That role did not
421
::exist, that job, that whole idea did not exist
when she entered the workforce.
422
::But she got into recycling, she got into stuff
in the office and trying to get those
423
::initiatives, and she tended to be in the ho or
l and D kind of area of the company, and
424
::that's what she focused on.
425
::And she was very happy doing it.
426
::It filled an awful lot of the criteria for her
to be interested in it.
427
::She had the ability to do it.
428
::And then as these new careers started coming
429
::on stream, like a sustainability specialist,
she was in the right place to position herself
430
::to move into that career.
431
::The kids.
432
::The kids, I hate saying kids, but the 16 year
olds that are like sitting exams now in the
433
::next couple of years and going to college,
studies have shown that they're going to have
434
::six or seven or eight careers by the time they
eventually retire.
435
::They're going to live much longer lives and
they're going to have many more options.
436
::And this, to me is how that's going to happen.
437
::So they're going to go in one direction and
438
::then new careers are going to emerge.
439
::But it's not like somebody's going to be an
440
::accountant and then something over here is
going to pop up in sustainability, for
441
::example, and they're going to have to make
this massive leap over.
442
::It's going to be in similar veins where people
are able to branch off and specialize off to
443
::find even more fine tuned areas of interest
that they can take part in.
444
::Or they might go, okay, I've done as much as I
can now in marketing.
445
::I think I'd like to have a go at teaching for
a bit, or I'd like to have a go at
446
::engineering, or I studied engineering, but
I've done it for a bit.
447
::But actually I want to do something a little
bit more outdoorsy.
448
::I want to do something because we have
different facets of our personality that
449
::different careers will speak to.
450
::So there might be times when people, it will
451
::seem like a huge jump, but it's actually two
areas of the same person's personality that
452
::are of interest, and they're going to go along
the path this stage.
453
::I wrote a book, an ebook last year called your
next career, which is aimed at actually
454
::helping people who are in careers that they're
either burnt out from, that they don't love
455
::anymore, or that they never loved, and how can
they move into their next career and what are
456
::the things that they can do to make sure that
they're understanding what they're actually
457
::bringing to the table and what experiences are
transferable and maybe what courses they might
458
::need to do to bridge that kind of stuff
because life is too short.
459
::Why would you spend the next 40 years doing
something that you really don't like doing?
460
::Speaker A: So what about if someone is nearing
the end of their career because they're older
461
::and they're not happy or satisfied.
462
::They haven't really had that job satisfaction.
463
::So I would say many people who aren't happy
per se in their roles, but are in a fairly
464
::good job in the sense that it's bringing them
that security, that income, that regular
465
::income.
466
::What are your thoughts in terms of how that
467
::compares to being in a fulfilling, rewarding
career and whether they should actually make
468
::that move, especially?
I don't know.
469
::Especially since there's that maybe this
stereotype that when it comes to the job
470
::market, employers, they don't necessarily
favor older candidates.
471
::Yeah.
472
::So what's your thoughts on that?
473
::Speaker B: So again, as we get older, as human
beings, we tend to be like, psychologically we
474
::tend to be more risk averse because when we're
in our 20s, we're not risking much because
475
::we're not making a lot of money.
476
::We don't have a mortgage, we don't have kids,
477
::we don't have all this other stuff.
478
::As we get older and older, we perceive that we
479
::have more to lose.
480
::We feel that if I gave this up, I wouldn't
481
::have this quality of life or I wouldn't have
this that or the other.
482
::That's a decision that only an individual can
make.
483
::Like, how comfortable are they with this idea?
And going to a career guidance counselor and
484
::going to somebody who specializes in career
change later on, even just to have a
485
::conversation can be really clarifying for
these people to actually get well, maybe there
486
::aren't positions, but if I've worked my way
up, if I've worked my way to a certain level,
487
::middle management or something like that, with
my experience and my age, maybe I can change
488
::industries, maybe I can do something else.
489
::Because management and leadership and EQ and
490
::dealing with people and all that is necessary
on all levels.
491
::And personally, I would always say if you're
financially able to do it and comfortable
492
::taking that risk, to say, look, I want to try
something new, even at 55, 60, because 65 is
493
::the old retirement age.
494
::Because our life expectancy was 60, we're
495
::living into our eighty s and ninety s now.
496
::So 65 is not the end game anymore.
497
::And by the time the students that are coming
through, they're not going to be able to get
498
::pensions by 65.
499
::They're going to be working till they're 75
500
::anyway.
501
::And medicine is keeping us healthier and
502
::happier.
503
::So having that quality of life and having that
504
::challenge doesn't mean that you need to just
sit back and do nothing.
505
::My parents are in their late seventy s and
they're still involved in our business.
506
::They're still involved they don't work day to
day in it like nine to five, but they do stuff
507
::all the time.
508
::Because I believe that you don't retire
509
::because you get old.
510
::My belief is you get old because you retire.
511
::If you don't have something that you're
passionate about, if you don't have something
512
::that is a purpose for you to do, then you
start to sit and just wait for the inevitable.
513
::So I'm a big proponent of people in their
third age actually getting out there and doing
514
::stuff and still having a purpose to get up
every morning and having something to do that
515
::keeps them going and keeps them active and
mentally young.
516
::Speaker A: Yeah.
517
::Speaker B: And that is not an excuse for
parents to just pike off their young kids on
518
::their grandparents to look after them.
519
::It's about having what the grandparents want
520
::as well.
521
::Speaker A: So earlier you mentioned about
being interested and enjoying a role rather
522
::than being passionate about a role.
523
::So how can someone basically differentiate
524
::between, this is something I really enjoy and
love doing and it being something that is a
525
::hobby or could actually translate into a
career?
526
::Yeah.
527
::Speaker B: So again, it depends.
528
::It's a very consultant, the answer, but it
529
::depends on the person, it depends on the
situation.
530
::So, I mean, there are people who have turned
their passions into careers and they're able
531
::to find the little switch to be able to push
that in.
532
::But I've also met equally a number of people
who have, especially since entrepreneurship
533
::became this sexy term in the last 1015 years,
that everybody wants to be a startup and to do
534
::something and to have a side hustle or
whatever, and they end up resenting having to
535
::do what they enjoyed doing before to pay the
bills.
536
::So for me, it's your passion and the things
that you're passionate about that allow you to
537
::vent, that allow you to let off steam, that
allow you to exercise that creative part of
538
::your brain if you want, but you don't
necessarily need that all day, every day.
539
::It's just a way for you to maybe do bits and
pieces.
540
::You might have a small etsy store that you
decide, I'm making a bit of money, but I'm
541
::just doing that on the side.
542
::I would think long and hard about turning that
543
::into a business because what I would encourage
people to do is actually look at the functions
544
::within that hobby or within that passion that
you enjoy doing on a day to day basis.
545
::So if it's the process that you like the idea,
let's say it's candle making, and you like the
546
::idea of being able to cut and measure and mix
and do things, and then you work the process
547
::and the process and the process and process.
548
::That process is for you to let off steam.
549
::But actually in your work, you might be a very
process driven leader and you might be in
550
::something which requires a lot of structure as
opposed to in marketing.
551
::And you're coming up with ideas all the time.
552
::You might have an interest in marketing, you
553
::might have an interest in process.
554
::So you might actually be the executive person
555
::who's looking after the posts and the
structure and how the blog gets done and how
556
::the photos are done, and making sure that
things are on time, that the video assets are
557
::coming in and making sure that all that is
happening.
558
::And then you have the process of the candles,
which you're also interested in and giving
559
::away as presence to be an outlet, but it's
still fulfilling the process side of it.
560
::So the passion and the interest is not the
candles.
561
::It's actually the process of making those
candles.
562
::With sport, if your passion is sport, it could
actually be what you like is the camaraderie.
563
::What you like is the working in a team as
opposed to working on your own.
564
::That's the bit that we can take and look at.
565
::Okay, in a workplace, this is the kind of
566
::culture that you need.
567
::You need a more camaraderie.
568
::You need people to be working in a team as
opposed to be isolated.
569
::There are other times, other hobies, which
might be gardening, which actually what you
570
::like is the solitude.
571
::What you like is actually being away and
572
::seeing things grow over time.
573
::So maybe that's the type of career, that's the
574
::type of thing that you should be looking at.
575
::In a career where you're maybe working on your
576
::own, you're more resilient to making sure that
things are happening and that you're working
577
::to see something grow and see a project go
from start to finish.
578
::Speaker A: Because obviously people tend to
have more than one skill set, more than one
579
::gift.
580
::How would someone know what to focus on for
581
::that to then lead to a pathway that they
follow?
582
::If I'm not going to say they've got competing
gifts, but they've got multiple gifts, and
583
::let's just say they enjoy doing many of them,
how would you even get to that point?
584
::Or how would you guide or what would you
suggest when it comes to being in that kind of
585
::situation?
586
::Speaker B: So from a purely academic point of
view, so we're just thinking about this
587
::without real tangibles.
588
::If you have all things being equal and you
589
::say, I would love to do this, or I would love
to do this, or I would love to do this, and
590
::you have three things that you say, I would
love to do all three of those.
591
::Then, in theory, it doesn't matter which one
you pick, because you'll never actually know
592
::if the other two would have been the right
decision.
593
::And people sometimes squirm under this, go,
well, what if I make the wrong decision?
594
::And what if I make.
595
::The great thing about this is you'll never
596
::know.
597
::If you spend five years getting really good at
598
::the one in the middle, you'll never know.
599
::It might be not as big a trajectory as if
600
::you'd picked the one on the left and you might
have been more successful on the one on the
601
::right.
602
::You might have gone to work and met the love
603
::of your life or something else.
604
::You'll never know.
605
::But also, just because you've spent 510 years
doing something and doing it to the best of
606
::your ability, you're ten years down that path.
607
::You have a lot more information about you,
608
::about the marketplace, about what's involved
in these things.
609
::Then you can look at the one on the left and
one on the right.
610
::Do I want to pivot?
Do I want to change?
611
::Do I want to move?
There's plenty of time to do all of this.
612
::And when you're doing that, you're bringing
your experience and your knowledge of that
613
::industry fresh eyes into a new industry or a
new business or a new way of doing things,
614
::which gives you extra experience, which you
wouldn't have necessarily had if you'd just
615
::gone straight down to the one on the left
anyway.
616
::So picking one and going with it, no matter
which route in a forest you pick, you will
617
::eventually find the way out, but you'll never
know if you started off on the right one until
618
::you actually start off on it.
619
::And then you can change directions if you need
620
::to.
621
::Speaker A: True. Something that popped into my
head when we were talking about how, like, for
622
::example, you mentioned those, let's just say
in school you give these talks where there's,
623
::like, about ten jobs or roles that didn't
exist when they were in primary school.
624
::So I guess, how does it work in terms of
updating your tool, the one that you use so
625
::that it's actually up to date?
And maybe it knocks off the ones that aren't
626
::necessarily careers anymore, career choices
anymore as well.
627
::It adds new ones that many people don't
realize exist.
628
::Speaker B: So that's something that we do on a
constant basis.
629
::So right now we do it every six months to see
which careers are out there, which are the
630
::emerging careers of which are the likely
careers that are going to start coalescing and
631
::we add them into our system and then we go
through everything.
632
::We haven't done a call yet because we've
really only been around for two or three
633
::years.
634
::So it'll take this version of our system has
635
::only been around for two or three years, and
there isn't anything yet that is dying
636
::straight away.
637
::But there is a possibility that in the next
638
::couple of years, things like truck drivers, if
automation, if self driving cars and trucks
639
::come out.
640
::And actually the truck driver in America is
641
::the biggest employer, the biggest industry
employer in the country.
642
::So that's a big, big problem to try and get
all of the truck driver, the existing truck
643
::drivers, to retrain and to find other things.
644
::But that's, again, what we can do with our
645
::system.
646
::We can find the elements in those individual
647
::drivers that they actually enjoy doing and
their skill set and then help them to retrain.
648
::So we constantly will be updating and we've
built our system to be updatable on a weekly
649
::basis if we want, but the world doesn't move
quite that quickly, but we do update it on a
650
::regular basis.
651
::Speaker A: I guess.
652
::Reassuring thing that.
653
::One of the things you've said that's
reassuring is that even if someone's worried
654
::about their role not existing in a few years,
there are other pathways.
655
::Correct, that can still satisfy them.
656
::All hope is not lost.
657
::Speaker B: Basically, if all hope was lost, I
wouldn't be on a mission to make the world a
658
::better place with happy people in fulfilled,
rewarding careers.
659
::Speaker A: Absolutely. All right.
660
::So for someone who's actually at a career
661
::crossroads and they're unsure what path to
take, they're distressed about it, frustrated,
662
::anxious, whatever we want to call it.
663
::What piece of advice would you give to guide
664
::that decision?
665
::Speaker B: Is this somebody who's been in
careers for a while, or is this somebody
666
::coming fresh into their career?
667
::Speaker A: I would say they've been in a
career not necessarily for a while.
668
::So, yeah, just someone who's got a.
669
::Speaker B: Couple of years out of college or
whatever.
670
::Speaker A: A couple of years, yeah.
671
::A recent ish graduate, whether it be college,
672
::whether it be university.
673
::Yeah.
674
::Speaker B: So a recent graduate.
675
::If they're looking at their career now and
676
::going, this isn't really what I wanted, it
probably is a case of they might have been
677
::given the well meaning advice to study
something, study a subject that they enjoyed,
678
::and when they've gone into the work, they've
kind of gone, this isn't what I thought it
679
::would be, or this isn't as fun as I thought it
would be.
680
::So have a look.
681
::You can start by saying, well, these are the
682
::things I don't like, but what are the things
that you do like about the career?
683
::Is it people?
Is it ideas, is it process, is it structure,
684
::is it travel?
Whatever it is about your career, what is it
685
::that you enjoy?
And then try and find other things that you
686
::feel are missing from the career, what are the
things that you would like to see?
687
::And then start doing some research about what
kinds of careers have these elements.
688
::Now, obviously you can go to careerfit.com and
get a report, but if you want to do it
689
::yourself, this is how you should start going
about it, because you need to have a look at
690
::what are the interests that you are looking
for, what are the things that you're looking
691
::for in the career?
And if you're at a crossroads and you want to
692
::get some free information, I wrote the book
last year, your next career, and it's
693
::yournextcareer.com.
694
::It's a free download.
695
::You don't have to do anything and it's got
everything there to help you step by step.
696
::But it also helps you with some interview
skills, techniques and rewriting cvs and
697
::things like that.
698
::But figuring out what you want to do.
699
::80% of people can do 80% of the jobs.
700
::From an ability point of view, there are some
701
::jobs that are so technical or some jobs that
are so manual that they require certain mixes
702
::of people in terms of their abilities.
703
::Like footballers, for example, highly
704
::technical brain surgeons, highly technical.
705
::But 80% of people can do 80% of the jobs.
706
::It all comes down to interest and then your
ability.
707
::So you could be interested in all kinds of
things and then figuring out which is the one
708
::which is going to switch you on the most.
709
::That's the path to start looking at.
710
::Speaker A: Thanks for sharing all these
nuggets.
711
::I mean, even I found it helpful and I'm not
looking for direction at this point.
712
::Thank you so much, Stephen, for sharing and
for anyone listening, do check out, certainly
713
::the book, the website that Stephen's
mentioned.
714
::Thank you, Steve.
715
::Speaker B: No, really, for me, it comes down
to happy people in fulfilling, rewarding
716
::careers.
717
::That's the whole mission of every facet of our
718
::business.
719
::And life is too short.
720
::If you're not happy in your career, you
deserve to be happy in your career.
721
::Speaker A: Brilliant.
722
::Thank you for joining me on Mary mayor talks.
723
::Here's a spiritual wellness tip for you.
724
::It's psalm, chapter 37, verses 23 to 24.
725
::And it reads, the Lord directs the steps of
the godly.
726
::He delights in every detail of their lives.
727
::Though they stumble, they will never fall, for
728
::the Lord holds them by the hand.
729
::Thanks for listening.
730
::Do follow and join me again next time on
beyond the smile with MaryLayo.
