Baby Blues
Post-Natal Depression
I’m with guest, Samantha Amakihe, about Postnatal depression and her experience soon after the birth of her child. We discuss what led to it and what helped the situation turn around.
Questions include:
- Leading up to the birth of your child how were you feeling?
- After the birth of your child when did you realise that something wasn’t right?
- What were your symptoms of post natal depression?
- What support (if any) did you have?
- How did your friends and family try to you with post natal depression?
- How did you get through the depression?
- How long did the post-natal depression last?
- What advice would you give to someone who is struggling to overcome postnatal depression?
- What advice would you give to a spouse/partner/good friend of someone who is experiencing postnatal depression?
- Any advice to a newly expectant mother?
- Bible verses to meditate on and help spiritual wellbeing.
Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scriptures: John 10:10 and 2 Corinthians 12.9.
Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation.
Guest details: Samantha is a Christian, a wife and mother of two beautiful children.
Connect with MaryLayo:
For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.
Transcript
1
::Marylayo: Host.
2
::Marylayo: Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a
podcast that discusses mental health and
3
::spiritual.
4
::Wellbeing, before we jump in, there may be
5
::episodes that are particularly sensitive for
some listeners and if that applies, then I
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::hope you'll be able to join me whenever you
feel ready and able.
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::Marylayo: Host.
8
::Marylayo: Today's episode is on postnatal
depression and I'm with guest Samantha Amaki
9
::he.
10
::Samantha opens up about her experience of
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::being a first time mum not feeling right soon
after the birth of her son and what helped to
12
::make things shift positively.
13
::Let's join in the conversation.
14
::Marylayo: Samantha, you describe yourself as a
wife and mother of two beautiful children and
15
::I just love that because that's so you.
16
::You're very positive, very encouraging.
17
::And I think it's going to be interesting
because when I think of postnatal depression
18
::and you in terms of your personality, your
character, they don't mix.
19
::So it's going to be an interesting discussion.
20
::In your own words, what would you say is
21
::postnatal depression?
I think people can guess and put two and two
22
::together, but yeah, just enlighten us.
23
::Samantha: Well, firstly, thank you so much for
asking me to do this.
24
::I really appreciate it.
25
::I never really thought I'm sure I'll expand it
26
::more, but I remember my mom saying that you
too will be able to tell your story about this
27
::season.
28
::When I experience happened and when she was
29
::saying it, in the midst of it, you're like,
whatever, mummy, I don't even want to hear
30
::that.
31
::But to think almost eleven years on to even
32
::talk now is so powerful.
33
::But my definition I would say is you have a
34
::baby.
35
::And somehow I don't know why the set of
36
::depression can come over you or can come over
some mums.
37
::I felt it was very unexpected, something I
never ever thought would happen.
38
::And it's just this low, really dark period
that just was like a wave.
39
::I didn't see it happening and it just lingered
and it was a really upsetting time.
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::Very, very upset.
41
::Marylayo: Was this when you had your first
child or your second child?
42
::First child.
43
::Samantha: So my beautiful boy, Benjamin, this
was:44
::Son was two weeks overdue and it's a long,
long time.
45
::He's a real mummy boy, so he wanted to stay in
a bit long.
46
::So you're just anticipating the birth and
what, labor and everything.
47
::And then finally, oh my gosh, he's here.
48
::And it's just a euphoria of like you've got
49
::your baby now so many years ago.
50
::But I do remember those feelings of just
51
::giving birth and having your baby and just
looking at your baby, this baby is mine, I'm
52
::responsible for this baby.
53
::And that was it.
54
::It was just literally, okay, just try and
figure out breastfeeding, so on and all of
55
::that followed.
56
::Marylayo: So leading up to the birth of your
son, it sounds quite like your experience and
57
::your feelings were quite normal about the
labor, the birth and having a baby your first.
58
::Samantha: I was getting impatient because late
July and I always remember my friend saying,
59
::because my friend and I, we were pregnant at
the same time.
60
::And I think she gave birth a few weeks
beforehand.
61
::And she just said, Just be careful of the baby
blue.
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::And that just threw me.
63
::I was like, what are you talking about?
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::When you give birth, you never know.
65
::You can feel a bit blue, a bit down.
66
::Marylayo: Do you know what made her say that?
67
::Samantha: No. And that was really random that
she just came out and said that.
68
::And I'm thinking now, thinking back, maybe she
had gone through something similar but didn't
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::really go into detail.
70
::She was just like, Just be careful, baby.
71
::No one had.
72
::Marylayo: And that was that her second
pregnancy?
73
::Samantha: That was her first pregnancy, yeah.
74
::So that kind of caught me off guard.
75
::I didn't expect anybody to say that to me.
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::I just brushed off.
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::Benjamin came.
78
::So it was all normal beforehand.
79
::Marylayo: Sure. So then after the birth of
Benjamin, when did you start feeling that
80
::something wasn't right?
And what were you feeling that made you think,
81
::hang on a SEC, this isn't how I should be
feeling?
82
::Samantha: Yeah, I've been thinking about that
because I remember bringing him home.
83
::I remember me and Edmund, my husband would
just figure it out, like, he's crying, let's
84
::feed him.
85
::He's just in the routine.
86
::And then I didn't realize how much I love
being outdoors.
87
::And I felt, okay.
88
::It's the first couple of days, my mom, she
89
::came over to help, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm
indoors all day, all night.
90
::It's summertime, so I was born in August and
I'm indoors.
91
::I was feeling this kind of claustrophobia kind
of feeling.
92
::I remember just being in, like, I need to get
out of the house.
93
::I need to get out of this house and remember
being with my son.
94
::And the way my mum was with Benjamin was very
different from the way I was.
95
::My mom was loving and kissing and talking to
him and everything.
96
::And I was very much feed him.
97
::Here you go, Mom, I'm done.
98
::You can take it more mechanical, very
mechanical.
99
::And she would say, you know, you can talk to
him.
100
::And I'd be looking at him and thinking, I love
this boy, I love my baby, but I just don't
101
::feel right.
102
::And I remember the first week, it was like the
103
::Saturday after I gave birth.
104
::That was one of the darkest moments.
105
::I remember my family came to visit me, and it
feels emotional even just remembering that
106
::time.
107
::And I remember holding my son, and I looked at
108
::Edmund and I just said, I feel like I'm in a
dark hole.
109
::And I'm thinking.
110
::I remember just clearly saying that to him.
111
::I feel like, dark hole.
112
::And I'm thinking and thinking and thinking.
113
::And I was freaked out.
114
::I was absolutely freaked out.
115
::By that feeling because I kept him thinking,
if I go darker and darker and down further
116
::down into this hole, I'm going to get into a
very disturbing place.
117
::And it was like God was saying, it's like you
need to do something, otherwise you're going
118
::to get into a very dangerous place.
119
::Marylayo: Even good that you communicated that
to Edmund.
120
::Samantha: I had to.
121
::I'm not the type of person who will keep these
122
::type of things to myself.
123
::I would always speak up to him as well as my
124
::sister.
125
::She knew how I was feeling.
126
::I was very open about it, very, very open.
127
::Marylayo: How long did this start place?
How long did it take to come out?
128
::And was it that conversation, was it you
opening up and sharing that with Edmond that
129
::changed things?
Would it continue?
130
::And what was the trigger?
131
::Samantha: The trigger, I think, was the fact
that I couldn't just get up and go and I even
132
::say it to new mums, just life is now going to
be very different.
133
::You can't just get up and go, oh, I'm going to
go out, you have to start planning and things
134
::so that liberty of not being able to go is
completely taken away.
135
::I couldn't even talk about that and the whole
change, I didn't realize.
136
::Sometimes I do struggle with change and this
is a massive change from a couple to now we've
137
::got a baby and now I can't leave the house as
much as I would want to and it's summertime
138
::and I just want to be out in fresh air and
I've got now a baby and responsibility.
139
::So I would say this to Edmond, I would tell my
mum, and I thank God, my mum, she's a retired
140
::midwife, that she saw the sign in the way I
was acting, the way my mood was, and I clearly
141
::remember her saying to me, go and lie down.
142
::And she took Benjamin and she was rain in the
143
::liver and that was very small, so I could hear
her and I could hear her to help me during
144
::this period.
145
::And I just remember just trying to reach out
146
::to people to say, have you experienced this?
Am I alone in briencing this?
147
::Is this normal what I'm going through?
And Sabrina, my sister, was trying to connect
148
::with other mums in church to say, okay, is
this going on?
149
::Other people, have you other mums experienced
this?
150
::And it was just some had and some one, I think
she called me and I was so grateful just to
151
::hear what she's saying, that I didn't feel
like I'm some abnormal woman.
152
::Because you just want to have somebody who can
understand what you're going through, of
153
::course, and not feel like a freak or
appreciate your first horn.
154
::Especially in a typical African culture, you
can be like, no, we quite enjoy this time.
155
::This is your baby.
156
::Like, yeah, but I'm struggling as well.
157
::This is a big deal.
158
::I'm struggling.
159
::I don't want to be feeling this way, so I'm
not going to keep this in myself.
160
::I just need to know if this is other people
felt this as well.
161
::So it did last probably over a month, probably
a couple of months.
162
::Yeah.
163
::But not as intense as what it was when it
164
::first started off.
165
::It did, you know, the gradual period, it got
166
::easier and that darkness.
167
::Darkness kind of dissaded away, but it wasn't
168
::immediate.
169
::It did take some time.
170
::Marylayo: So when how you've described in
terms of this darkness started fading away, is
171
::there anything that you can pinpoint to say
that that's when it started to shift, that's
172
::when things started to change?
173
::Samantha: Yes, absolutely.
174
::I believe it was when I was prayerful.
175
::I was very prayerful in the midst of it.
176
::Marylayo: Okay.
177
::Samantha: My mom was extremely supportive.
178
::Extremely supportive.
179
::She would come over and stay with me.
180
::I'd go over to I'd go over to her lathe and
181
::I'd have a break.
182
::I believe it's when I realized that I can
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::leave the house with my baby.
184
::When I felt more confident to leave the house
185
::by myself with Benjamin, because I would be
looking around and I'd be looking for baby
186
::groups to attend.
187
::And they would always say things like, oh,
188
::baby has to be six months plus, oh, my gosh,
are you joking?
189
::I can wait my baby to be six months old before
I can go to a baby.
190
::And then all of a sudden I got like a phone
call.
191
::When you have your baby, you're registered to
so many of the things and they contact.
192
::They said, we want to come over and see you
and talk to you about what is available.
193
::I said calm.
194
::Any visitors?
195
::I welcome people.
196
::Like, I love when people would come and visit
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::me.
198
::If I can't go outside and come to me, I will
199
::welcome you.
200
::And when they came, it was like there were two
201
::angels.
202
::When they said, me, there's a baby group just
203
::down the road and they take newborn.
204
::I said, I'm there, I am there.
205
::And that's all they needed to tell me.
206
::I said, okay.
207
::I think I could go that week.
208
::I said, I'll be dead, Nick.
209
::And I made sure of it.
210
::That was the thing I needed to do.
211
::I needed just get out of the house.
212
::I needed to be around other people.
213
::I needed to speak to people and just feel not
even talk about what I was going through, but
214
::just feel like I'm not in this world because
Edmund would leave home about me and not get
215
::home till six.
216
::So it's just like me and the baby, me and the
217
::baby.
218
::I'm not used to it.
219
::It was like this kind of panic attack at times
where it's like, my gosh, I'm at home by
220
::myself.
221
::I'm at home by myself with a baby.
222
::And it was just this.
223
::I need to get out.
224
::I need to get out.
225
::This kind of it was so, so surreal.
226
::But when I had baby group to go to, oh, gosh,
even if I had to walk out, I would have gone.
227
::I had to get out and make my way there.
228
::And that was literally my opening.
229
::It was like my door out, all.
230
::Marylayo: That dark, basically, because from
what you were saying, I started to realize
231
::it's not even just about going out and getting
fresh air.
232
::It was about going out.
233
::Going out for a purpose, mixing with people,
234
::having something in the diary to look forward
to, and just having been around peers who are
235
::going through exactly the same thing, newborns
and mixing with that.
236
::Samantha: I mean, I really learned a lot about
myself.
237
::I didn't realize how much I thrived on being
around other people.
238
::I've spent many other months and they're like,
oh, no, I was just at home.
239
::I just loved it.
240
::Spend me my baby time.
241
::Yeah.
242
::And you feel a bit rubbish when.
243
::Marylayo: They would say that, like, people
are different, aren't they?
244
::Samantha: Exactly.
245
::People are so different.
246
::And I just thought, okay, this is who I am.
247
::This is what I know what I need.
248
::And I needed that.
249
::So that was absolutely fine.
250
::Yeah.
251
::Marylayo: So within your second child, your
daughter, did you have any concerns leading up
252
::to the birth in terms going through that
again?
253
::Or is it that you felt, you know what, I'm now
more experienced.
254
::I now know that this is what I need and
therefore this is what I can do.
255
::Samantha: Exactly that.
256
::Because I'd made a testimony.
257
::I remember in church when Benjamin was about
four months off, and so when I was pregnant
258
::the second time, five years later, people were
like, oh, Samantha be mindful.
259
::You don't even need to tell me that because
I've been praying already and I know what I
260
::need to do.
261
::I knew exactly what I needed to do.
262
::My daughter, like her brother, was overdue ten
days even that I was prepared for whatever
263
::would happen.
264
::And my mom once again came over to help out,
265
::but I knew what I needed to do.
266
::And this time around, obviously, my son was in
267
::primary school, so I had to pick him up.
268
::That was my outing.
269
::I knew we had a purpose to leave the house,
and that darkness didn't even exist.
270
::And I thank the Lord it did not come close to
me because I had learned so much about myself.
271
::I've been mindful of how I feel.
272
::If it's sunny outside, I can go out just a
273
::little bit.
274
::With the cram, I felt more confident to go out
275
::a lot more earlier than I did with my son.
276
::Your newborn a few weeks old, but I thought it
277
::was a lot different.
278
::This felt so much more confident, and it was
279
::never an issue.
280
::Never an issue.
281
::Marylayo: You've kind of talked about how you
learned about yourself through that
282
::experience.
283
::What tips or advice would you give to
284
::yourself, to Samantha those years ago?
Do you think you would say something to
285
::yourself and what would it be?
This could be leading up to or during that
286
::dark period.
287
::What would you say to yourself?
288
::Samantha: I was prayerful.
289
::I think I would have just trust God, know that
290
::he would not give you a child and not give you
the strength of it and to take more advantage
291
::of what your mom was doing.
292
::Because when you're sleep deprived, that also
293
::vegs you cool.
294
::I just had this kind of mission.
295
::Some people say you're trying to understand my
breastfeeding ball and all of that.
296
::You feel like you're preparing for a test and
I'd be up at:297
::In the morning.
298
::My mom would be that I'll go back to bed, I
299
::need to watch, I need to learn what needs to
be done.
300
::I don't know why I did that.
301
::I really don't understand why.
302
::It was like this panic of my mom's eventually
going to go back to her place and I need to
303
::know get everything from her before she goes.
304
::It's like, why was I doing that to myself?
305
::I even say to if you've got someone helping
you, just give the baby and you go sleep.
306
::And I was a shock to the system.
307
::No one told me how sleep deprivation really
308
::affect you.
309
::And no one really told me about how your
310
::hormones can just rage up and down, make your
mood.
311
::And I think I would have just said, look, go
out for walk.
312
::Even if you don't go with the baby, you want
to just keep your baby at home, your mum's at
313
::home, go out for walk, just go walk.
314
::There's nothing wrong with that.
315
::I didn't even think about doing that type of
stuff.
316
::Just to get fresh air, just to be out and
about, go and meet a friend.
317
::Because I would literally look forward to
going to the doctor.
318
::I would look forward walking around to the
park because it just meant I could go outside.
319
::So don't feel guilty about those type of
things.
320
::You're not bad mom.
321
::That's what I would tell myself.
322
::Marylayo: That sounds like good advice that
you could give to someone who's currently
323
::going through postnatal depression.
324
::Samantha: Absolutely. My sister and I started
a baby group.
325
::We had it running for a couple of years and it
was on the premise of we just want months to
326
::come together and offload and just do what you
want to do, talk, pray, just be there to laugh
327
::and joke.
328
::And I've always been very open.
329
::How you doing?
How things going?
330
::Are you struggling with anything?
Do you need prayer?
331
::Do you want us to meet up?
Anything like that?
332
::Because it was absolute gold when people say
they'd want to come and visit me or if they
333
::want to meet up with me it was gold.
334
::And I think it was something I was a bit
335
::annoyed that I didn't hear much about this
when we were at church, only when I made a
336
::testimony, and I love our church, but it was
just something that I'd never heard anyone
337
::talk about before.
338
::And when I made the testimony had about two,
339
::three months, four mums come up to me over the
space of months and they were telling me some
340
::deep, dark things about what they were going
through, things I thought, wow, I was nowhere
341
::near what they were going through.
342
::Why not?
343
::Have we not spoken about this type of stuff?
How can we give these things to ourselves?
344
::Really messed up kind of things, and thank God
they came out of it.
345
::Why should it have taken me to give a
testimony?
346
::Marylayo: But I mean, I can see why.
347
::Because number one, it's personal.
348
::Number two, you probably don't even know if
someone out there can help you.
349
::But some people aren't as open.
350
::They tend to keep things, or want to, not so
351
::comfortable sharing what they're going
through.
352
::With others.
353
::It sounds more hidden.
354
::Samantha: It is.
355
::Exactly.
356
::And even speak to a health, difficult or
midwife and they come and do their checks.
357
::You just feel like, I don't want social
services to get involved and I don't want to
358
::know what's going on.
359
::So you do keep strong.
360
::You don't want anyone outside your media
family, should I say, to know what's going on?
361
::And I remember one mom said she kept it right
from her family for about nine months or six
362
::months or something.
363
::Oh, my goodness me, I was so shocked.
364
::But I can understand why.
365
::Were you just like, expected as a new mom to
366
::get on with it?
Baby needs to be changed.
367
::The way the media portrays it, it's not always
as glamorous as what it looks.
368
::It doesn't look glamorous.
369
::Marylayo: It's a blessed experience.
370
::Samantha: Absolutely.
371
::Marylayo: Like, one of the things you
mentioned was how you looked forward to visit,
372
::meeting with friends, which is surprising to
me because when I think of someone who's just
373
::given birth and with a newborn, I think, oh my
gosh, baby crying, changing nappies, the
374
::feeds, the house is a mess.
375
::I would give them as much space as I can
376
::because I don't think that person would want
me to be there, given that there's so many
377
::things going on and they're trying to get to
grips with it and they're sleep deprived, so
378
::why would they need a visitor?
So it's interesting what you're saying.
379
::Samantha: I do that.
380
::I even think that I reminded myself that well,
381
::I remember thinking all the baby does is just
sleep.
382
::Imagine your baby, you feed your baby, you
change your baby.
383
::She just sleeps.
384
::So I can't play with him when he's awake.
385
::But he said when he's newborn, newborn, he's
just sleeping.
386
::So I've got time.
387
::So I was fine.
388
::I know people were like, oh, give her some
space and give her some time.
389
::And I know as a new mom, I'm sure some people
would have said that and do say that, but for
390
::me, I was receiving visitors in the first week
and I did not care.
391
::I was like, Please come and see me.
392
::Yeah, I'm here.
393
::Yes.
394
::It just felt like the outside world was coming
395
::into my house.
396
::Marylayo: I get that, yeah.
397
::Samantha: I was more than happy to receive
visitors, even when I had my daughter.
398
::I a couple of weeks, come on board.
399
::I do not mind.
400
::I do not mind at all, if you don't mind me
breastfeeding.
401
::Sit and chat and enjoy.
402
::Marylayo: One of the things you mentioned was
about how much your mom was a support you
403
::shared with Edmund.
404
::Your sister helped calling people.
405
::I was thinking about how it can be very
difficult if someone's going through a dark
406
::period.
407
::How can you help?
408
::How can you support someone?
How can you lift them?
409
::How can you be there for them?
And you've kind of touched on this in terms of
410
::your mum praying and you sharing with Edmonds,
your sister calling, and you've even mentioned
411
::about how you and your sister, you started
this mums and baby group.
412
::What advice would you give to, let's just say,
a spouse, a partner, a good friend, a family
413
::member of someone who's actually experiencing
postnatal depression?
414
::What would you say to them so that they don't
feel helpless, although they want to help that
415
::person?
416
::Samantha: I think just knowing that I can just
talk and be real with my husband, with my mom,
417
::with my sister, and then being able to sit and
listen and not say anything like, well, you're
418
::being silly, I just need to let you know
what's going on in my head.
419
::Just having that, having my husband there,
having my mum there.
420
::I mean, I get emotional thinking about it
because I think if they tried to silence me, I
421
::think that would have just made things even
worse.
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::And it was very hard because I know my sister
and my husband were like, those are two who
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::really, really know me.
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::And it was hard for them to see me like that.
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::It was very all I needed was just to talk.
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::I've been down low and I thank God for my mom
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::because she was praying, she was rain.
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::I know Edmund was rain.
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::My sister, I remember she sent me scriptures,
put them somewhere, scriptures printed out on
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::card of encouraging scriptures for me to
declare somewhere for me to read, so that I'm
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::constantly filled with the word of God, even
if I wasn't feeling it at that moment, but
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::just to keep and declare over myself.
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::And I remember her doing that and it just was
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::not kind of like, hurry up and get through
this mentality, like, oh, why are you still
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::feeling like this?
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::Marylayo: Just listen.
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::Samantha: And I know for me.
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::I love to talk.
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::I do love to talk, and all I ask is for people
to listen.
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::And with the fact that they could listen to me
was just gold.
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::Anybody who's going through that if they've
got someone who they can just be real, not put
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::this pretend smile on and pretend that
everything's okay.
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::I'm okay, I'm okay.
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::When you know deep down you're being really
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::rubbish, just talk about it and have someone
to pray with you or just be there at the other
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::end of the phone and someone who's actually
been there through it as well.
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::So you don't feel like, am I the only person
around me?
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::Because it's ascertain early I was literally
looking like I would speak to this person.
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::I never went through that brilliance.
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::And when I finally found someone, he said,
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::yeah, I feel alone in this.
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::That makes a big difference.
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::Marylayo: You mentioned how when you were
pregnant, a good friend mentioned to you, be
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::careful about the or be mindful about the baby
blues.
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::If there was any advice that you could give to
someone, particularly a newly expectant
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::mother, what would it be like?
What would you say that may help them to be
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::more prepared or be helpful, given that they
may not experience postnatal depression?
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::But is there anything that you think you could
give to someone that's expectant?
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::Samantha: I would say to them, do not push
away support.
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::If someone is saying, Can I help you?
Even if you are a couple, it's you and your
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::spouse and the child irrespective.
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::If someone's saying, okay, let me help you
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::out, help you with the baby, or help you with
at least you feel you've got some time to
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::yourself or some time with the baby or some
time just to go out.
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::But then also it's saying to a new mom, it's
knowing what you know are your strengths and
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::what your personality type is.
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::I know my personality type now was being
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::around people, but I didn't realize how that
would affect me.
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::And probably telling them that, look, be
mindful, you might not leave the house, your
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::place for a good couple of weeks, but put
things in place where you can potentially feel
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::like you're not alone and isolated.
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::This mindset of, oh, I don't want to disturb
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::this mum, she's going through this.
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::I think also because Edmund paternity leave
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::was pretty short.
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::So you can feel very alone and very isolated.
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::You can feel that it's a lot by yourself, but
that's not the case.
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::It's just surrounding yourself and as many
people as possible, if you can do so
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::brilliant.
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::Marylayo: On that note, we've ended with you
being encouraging, which is the Samantha I
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::know.
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::So thanks for sharing and being so open with
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::your experience.
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::I'm sure many people are going to really learn
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::and be encouraged by that sharing.
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::And if you're listening, thank you for joining
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::me on Marylayo Talks.
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::Hope to see you next time.
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::Marylayo: Here's a couple of spiritual
wellness tips that you can meditate on.
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::The first is John, chapter ten, verse ten, and
it reads the thief comes only to steal and
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::kill and destroy.
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::I have come that they may have life and have
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::it to the fore.
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::The second is two Corinthians, chapter twelve,
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::verse nine, which reads each time he said, my
grace is all you need.
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::My power works best in weakness.
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::Marylayo: Host.
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::Marylayo: Thank you for listening.
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::Do follow and join me again next time on Mary
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::layo Talks Beyond the Smile.
