Bereavement Insights: Clearing the Home
How do you go about clearing the house, and personal belongings, when someone dies? In today's episode of MaryLayo Talks, I’m with guest, Dr Chris Davis, and we share our experiences of clearing the home following the passing of a loved one.
Discussion includes:
- The emotional and practical challenges faced during the process of grieving and clearing the house.
- The role of friends and family.
- Navigating through the house clearing process - deciding what belongings to keep or part with when grieving.
- Tips and advice for those grieving and clearing the house.
- Bible scripture to support spiritual wellbeing.
Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation.
Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scripture Psalm 34:18.
Connect with MaryLayo:
For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.
Transcript
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::MaryLayo: Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a podcast
that discusses mental health and spiritual
2
::well being.
3
::Before we jump in, there may be episodes that
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::are particularly sensitive for some listeners,
and if that applies, then I hope you'll be
5
::able to join me whenever you feel ready and
able.
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::In this episode, I'm with Dr. Chris Davis, and
we're talking about clearing the home after
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::the passing of a loved one, which isn't easy
to navigate.
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::Let's listen into the conversation.
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::My experience when it comes to clearing the
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::house after someone's passed away, I would say
it boils down to two events, and they're to do
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::with the passing away of my parents.
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::So the first was my dad, and he passed away
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::quite a few years ago, quite a number of years
ago, actually.
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::And to be honest, I don't remember much of
that.
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::And I think it's because I wasn't part of the
process.
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::I was at uni at the time, come home weekends,
but I don't really remember being involved in
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::the process.
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::I would definitely say it was much different
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::when my mum passed away because I was kind of
staying with her at the time.
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::So I definitely had a lot more hands on
experience of being involved in that process
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::and very different experiences for those two
occasions.
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::What about yourself?
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::Chris: Yeah, I would agree, actually.
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::My dad passed away in 2019, by which point I'm
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::a grown man with a sort of young family of my
own.
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::Prior to that, I think I'm probably one of
those people who's fortunate, actually to have
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::not experienced loss much in my life.
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::And I think the last experience prior to that
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::was my grandma passing away when I was
probably:30
::And I think it was a similar experience to the
one that you've just alluded to.
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::When you're kind of probably because of age or
just because of circumstances, you're kind of
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::kept out of that.
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::Probably the more formal elements of that.
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::So it was a completely different experience
that came with completely different
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::challenges, I guess virtually 20 years, 20
years later.
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::MaryLayo: Sure. And you mentioned about
challenges.
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::So when your dad passed away and you were a
lot more involved in the process, I guess, how
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::did it happen for you?
And I guess you and your family?
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::Chris: So dad passed away really suddenly.
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::It was a heart attack, and my dad was in good
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::health to my mind.
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::I think there's always a bit of a naivety
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::about your own parents that you think they're
invincible.
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::And I always felt like that about my dad.
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::Despite the fact that he'd had various
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::different physical ailments, he'd had a hip
replacement, for example.
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::And I had seen him being kind of slightly
vulnerable and toddling around after he'd had
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::his hip replacement and things like that.
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::But I still saw him as being kind of
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::invincible.
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::To me, he was kind of a pretty healthy man in
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::his late 60s.
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::He was still working.
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::So it was really sudden.
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::And I think that's the context for a lot of
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::this conversation, that it was the suddenness.
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::I think that that poses a different challenge
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::to somebody who's lost a close relative or
friend over a period of time when you've
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::perhaps had chance to think about it a little
bit more.
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::I don't think that one is easier than the
other, but I think that it being something
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::that's really sudden just means that you just
are kind of faced with a reality really
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::suddenly.
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::And so I would say that with my dad, there was
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::a real sense of having to overcome the shock
before anything, before anything else.
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::But when I sort of said a moment ago that I
encountered this as an adult, while you are
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::dealing with those kind of emotions, like
shock and that immediate sense of grief, there
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::are just practical things straight away.
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::My dad was still working.
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::And so there's things like making sure that
his.
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::So my dad was self employed, making sure that
his clients and clients and people that he
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::worked with were made aware.
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::And that happened.
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::My dad died on a Friday night and we were
having to do those things on a Monday.
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::So it was really sudden in that sense.
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::MaryLayo: Yeah. Like what you've said, in a
way similar, but not similar when it came to
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::my mum.
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::Like my mom, she passed away just over five
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::years ago.
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::And even to me it was sudden.
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::But thinking back, it really wasn't because
all the signs were there.
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::And I think it's because, like you say about
parents and you think that maybe they're like
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::a hero, they're going to go on forever and
ever and ever.
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::That was literally how I saw my mum.
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::Because even though she was elderly, my mum
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::passed away.
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::She was over 80, but she was very strong,
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::quite independent.
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::And it was only the latter months that her
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::health declined.
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::And even though her health declined quite
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::significantly, I still didn't see it coming.
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::And maybe it's because it was hope, maybe it's
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::because I did not think about what then
happened.
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::I really didn't see it coming.
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::So in a way, it was sudden.
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::She was in hospital, similar reason that you
mentioned in terms of your dad, heart attack.
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::But when she was in hospital, she was getting
better.
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::And then all of a sudden, just when the
doctors were saying that oh, actually, she's
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::much better now.
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::She passed away for, I would say, a good few
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::weeks.
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::Hadn't even thought about clearing the house
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::or what to do with mum's stuff.
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::And the process first started in a very small
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::way when a family friend, very good family
friend, who was more like a daughter to my
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::mum, literally, when she came from abroad, she
came to stay with me and she said, okay, let's
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::get rid of this.
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::And this were a few little items, like in the
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::bathroom, to help my mum, because she was
quite vulnerable at the time.
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::Just before she passed away, I remember being
so appreciative that it came from her and that
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::she'd got the ball rolling because it didn't
even cross my mind.
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::I don't think it would have crossed my mind.
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::I saw those items.
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::They weren't any good to me, practically.
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::They weren't of any sentimental value.
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::They were just functional support AIDS.
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::But it just didn't cross my mind to dispose of
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::them, to think about getting rid of it.
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::And so I just remember, I don't think it was
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::relief, it was just more gratitude that there
was someone there that helped me to make that
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::decision.
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::And I think that kind of sowed the seed or
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::paved the way for me psychologically thinking
that, okay, at some point we're going to do
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::this and we're going to do this in a much
bigger magnitude.
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::Before then, it really didn't cross my mind.
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::Chris: And can I just ask with that?
So you've got siblings, right?
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::I know that you got sister.
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::MaryLayo: Yeah, I've got siblings, yeah.
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::Chris: So were you taking the lead on that
process to a certain extent?
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::And were you in tune with others about the
best way through that?
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::And I ask just because my sense is that
there's no blueprint for this at all and
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::you're suddenly in a position where you're
thinking, what is the right way to approach
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::it?
And as adults, when you've got multiple adults
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::in the equation, I think that you're each
going to have your own thoughts on that.
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::MaryLayo: Yeah. So it's a good question.
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::So I've got two sisters, I've got a sister in
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::law.
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::And I would say I don't think I took the lead,
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::but I do think I had a key voice in that
process because I was the one that was
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::resident in the house.
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::The others had, they've got their own
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::households, their own family, they weren't
staying there.
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::And therefore, obviously a lot was with me in
the sense of, when are we going to do this?
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::And I don't even remember that conversation,
to be fair.
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::I just think that.
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::I just remember there being one day and it was
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::more like a project when it wasn't just my
sisters, including my sister in law, it was,
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::like, a lot of members in the family.
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::So it was my siblings, it was my nieces, my
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::nephews, my cousins, my aunts.
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::There was a whole host of family members that
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::we'd arranged a day or dates, as it turns out,
to clear the house, and that took a number of
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::weeks, or at least a few weeks, before it was
all mainly sorted.
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::So in terms of coordination, I just know that
it was after the funeral and there was a date
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::that people were coming, and really we had to
keep doing that until the process was
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::finished, until all the stuff was done.
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::So it reminds me very much more of a project.
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::We all came together for a purpose.
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::All hands on deck.
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::There was snacks that were being brought just
to keep our energies up.
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::There was a lot of chatter in the house, a lot
of energy, a lot of gusto.
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::Yeah, that's my memory of that time.
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::I don't know if that answered your question,
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::actually.
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::Chris: No, it did.
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::And it's interesting, actually, that there's a
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::difference there.
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::My experience is one that I guess I've been
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::fortunate that I've been able, to a certain
extent, to approach.
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::I'm fortunate in that I've been able to
approach this from arm's length to some
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::extent.
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::So I don't live in the house and had been
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::living elsewhere for a considerable amount of
time by that point.
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::My mum was there.
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::I think my sister may have been at home at the
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::time time.
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::But what that meant was that, I guess I had
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::the ability to engage with that process and
disengage with it as and when, and it happened
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::over a longer period of time.
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::So my mum continued living in the house.
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::So this was our family home from.
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::I don't remember another house.
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::I moved to that house when I was maybe 18
months old, I think.
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::So I'd never known any other house at all.
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::My mum continued living in that house from
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::when my dad died in early 2019 until three,
four weeks ago.
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::And so that process was much more gradual.
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::I've got huge respect for my mum, actually, in
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::the way that she has tackled things over a
period of time.
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::I think she's always been very philosophical
and very realistic about the fact that, in her
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::case, she had essentially three decades worth
of stuff and extra as well, because I think
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::that when you move into a house, you bring a
load of stuff from a previous house.
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::And it goes on, and it goes on.
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::So there were huge amounts of stuff in that
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::house.
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::And I think that she was very realistic about
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::the fact that she would have to chip away at
it bit by bit.
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::Otherwise, I think it's just overwhelming to
take things on all at once.
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::Over the last four years, I'll smile as I say
this.
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::I've actually grown to quite enjoy the process
of my mum turning up.
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::Anytime that she visits, she will bring
something, and it's something that she's found
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::in the house, found in a cupboard, found here,
there, everywhere.
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::And she's thought that not necessarily that I
would want it or want to inherit that piece,
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::because we're talking about quite trivial
things here.
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::It's nothing of huge importance, but she would
bring them to me with a thought that I would
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::be best placed to do something with that.
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::For example, and I wouldn't say that my dad
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::was a hoarder by any stretch of the
imagination, but he had a lot of stuff.
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::I think there's probably a distinction between
being a collector of items and being a
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::hoarder.
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::I don't know that there was that much stuff,
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::but he was a real sports buff.
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::And I think anybody who is a bit of a sports
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::buff will inherit stuff or gradually
accumulate stuff over time.
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::So in my dad's case, it was lots of football
programs and speedway programs and football
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::programs, not just from professional clubs,
but even coming to watch me play football as a
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::teenager and a young adult.
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::So every time he'd come, he'd get a program.
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::Nothing valuable about them at all.
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::It might be a 20 p program or something, but
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::he would just gather them.
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::And there were bags and bags of them all over
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::the place.
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::I mean, the loft is a story in its own right,
225
::but even kind of in drawers near my dad's bed
and under the bed, there were just bags and
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::bags of things.
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::So mum would gradually bring them over to me
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::and I guess was a bit of a proxy there, and I
would kind of go through them and do what I
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::felt was the best thing with them.
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::But over a period of years, really, it wasn't
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::just, here's everything that your dad ever
collected, go through it.
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::And so I actually think I grew.
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::I couldn't pinpoint exactly when the time was
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::because obviously I was just sad.
235
::I forget how long, but I just remember getting
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::to a point where I started to take some
comfort in that process of looking at those
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::items, taking time and kind of enjoying that.
238
::Enjoy is probably the wrong word, but enjoying
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::that time and then parting with them, whether
that was handing them on to some.
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::With football programs.
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::There were football programs from decades
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::before my dad was even born.
243
::So it was clear that we're talking about kind
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::of things that he himself has gathered over
the years.
245
::But I would go through, and if I saw a
football team that I knew, a friend of mine
246
::supported, I'd go and just take them that and
say, I found this.
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::I know that you support them.
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::Would this be of interest to you?
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::And just one or two, and then I'd feel like
I'd kind of respected those items, even though
250
::I had to get rid of.
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::I've had to get rid of bags, and I have just
252
::recycled a lot of them, as in throwing them
away, but just giving it that time and looking
253
::at them and having that evening, perhaps, and
then parting with them felt for me like it was
254
::like an important step and one that just
needed that kind of respect, I suppose.
255
::MaryLayo: Sure. I know what you mean about
enjoying that time, in a way, and you're
256
::right, enjoying isn't quite the right word,
because it wasn't so much what I described
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::earlier.
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::Like it was a project, and we had one purpose,
259
::to clear out, get rid of stuff, and it wasn't
about that.
260
::There was a time where that process didn't
include the other stuff that I had to go
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::through.
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::And that took a while to really sort of go
263
::through and clear out and decide what my
keeping what's not and all that kind of jazz.
264
::And I think the last time might have been
maybe, just maybe a couple of years ago that I
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::finished.
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::I wouldn't even say I've finished, but I've
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::more or less finished the filing.
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::And that was the filing of stuff, like doing
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::all the paperwork, so not the clothes, not the
shoes, not their personal items.
270
::It was more about the letters, the books, that
kind of category.
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::And that took a long while.
272
::And I remember having to go through them and
273
::just decide, is this to be kept because it's
important?
274
::Is this to be kept because might need to refer
back to it at some point?
275
::Or is this just something trivial and it's not
real importance?
276
::I remember going through them and just
spending the whole day and evenings over a
277
::period of time, going through all of that
stuff and scanning it just in case, or at
278
::least there's an electronic copy or shredding
it or disposing of it, recycling it.
279
::And I remember that that was quite a time
where I was quite emotional, because after
280
::going through it, there was that going through
stuff, even if it was like a trivial letter,
281
::like maybe a bank statement or something like
that.
282
::It made my parents within touching distance
because I'm looking at something that was very
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::much live at the time.
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::And that kind of must have stirred up things,
285
::like, in terms of memories, some things were
very sentimental, some things not.
286
::But the fact that it was an account or of that
moment in history that linked to them did stir
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::up memories.
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::And I kind of enjoyed having that time where I
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::was able to relive or remember certain things
because of that paperwork or those photos.
290
::But at the same time, it was very emotional
because it was a reminder that they weren't in
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::my life anymore.
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::But the fact that I was able to enjoy those
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::memories by looking at those documents was an
enjoyable experience because I wouldn't be
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::able to create new memories with them.
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::And therefore it enabled me to enjoy those
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::memories by going through those.
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::Whatever it was, photos, documents, letters.
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::Chris: Yeah, I think it's a really important
point, which is that.
299
::And this is where I say that I think I'm
probably quite fortunate that for the bulk,
300
::not exclusively, but a lot of my engagement
with that process of going through stuff and
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::deciding what to do with it.
302
::The bulk of that I've been able to do at arm's
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::length.
304
::And I think that what that gives you the
305
::luxury of is, I guess, being able to, for me,
almost tap into what are overwhelmingly
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::positive memories of my dad.
307
::And like I say again, I'm still scrambling
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::around for the right word, but enjoy that
process to a certain extent.
309
::But you will inevitably.
310
::And I think I probably found this most when I
311
::recently, in the sort of last months before my
mum moved out of the house.
312
::When you have to go through everything and you
can't choose, you just have to go through
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::everything.
314
::And you go through either the sentimental, the
315
::sentimental stuff, there's always more
sentimental material there, the practical
316
::stuff, like you say, documents.
317
::My dad would have kind of old invoices and
318
::things up in the loft.
319
::And you just think, I can't really just throw
320
::that away.
321
::And that's a kind of very practical
322
::consideration there.
323
::And then there's just the really unexpected,
324
::miscellaneous things that you don't really
know what to do with.
325
::Not only are there those kind of three
different almost categories, the sentimental,
326
::the practical and the completely unexpected,
but you just can't prepare yourself in terms
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::of knowing how you're going to react to those.
328
::Actually, it could be, I guess you almost have
329
::some, or at least I do.
330
::There's almost something kind of cinematic
331
::about the idea of finding an old box of
photographs and being able to go through them
332
::and almost the family are all there and you
kind of take out a photograph.
333
::Oh, do you remember that?
That was a holiday that we went on and those
334
::sorts of things, but actually, like I say,
they tap into something that's really positive
335
::and then it could be something that is really
kind of mundane, that is the item that sets
336
::you off and really upsets you.
337
::And I think I would probably say the same
338
::thing, that for me, those kind of invoices and
documents relating to my dad's job are
339
::probably more of a reminder for me that he's
not here anymore.
340
::Because I guess what I'm trying to say is that
you just have to be prepared to be really
341
::unprepared to know what to do and kind of just
unexpectedly just be upset by things or happy
342
::about you and just not know how you're going
to feel at any given time.
343
::MaryLayo: Like, what you said reminded me of.
344
::There was part of the paperwork that I had to
345
::go through was lots of stuff to do with my
mum's medical appointments and it's od because
346
::why would I want to keep that?
But for a season, my mom had a lot of medical
347
::appointments because of her health.
348
::And in that season, I was there to take her.
349
::Not all of the time, but most of the time, I
was there to take her to those appointments.
350
::I found the time.
351
::I tried to find the time to go with her.
352
::And so it's almost like, even though they're
not happy memories, they're still memories of
353
::that time that I spent with my mum during that
challenging season.
354
::And therefore there's something about chucking
it away when they really were part of that
355
::history.
356
::Chris: Yeah. And I think that there's
something to be said and I realize that this
357
::is really personal to each individual.
358
::And I know this from kind of my experience
359
::with my siblings, that each of us have very
different, I guess, different relationships
360
::with grief and how best to deal with it.
361
::For me personally, I think that anything that
362
::gives me that acts as a kind of stimulus for
me to feel something, I kind of welcome.
363
::And I think I've always been like that.
364
::So whether it is a photo, whether it is a bank
365
::statement, whether it's anything at all, if
there's something that has the ability to make
366
::me sort of feel something, yes, at the right
time.
367
::But I'll sort of welcome that because I think
for a while I used to chastise myself a little
368
::bit for not feeling enough.
369
::It felt like life went on.
370
::My dad passed away I had a couple of weeks off
work and then I was back at work and suddenly
371
::everything was as it was and I felt slightly
guilty that I wasn't feeling more.
372
::And so I think I've always had this, I guess,
inclination towards things that make me feel
373
::something, even if it suddenly just makes me
cry my eyes out.
374
::Whereas I know that from my brother and my
sister's point of view, they have a different
375
::relationship with that.
376
::For example, my sister will deal with things
377
::in her own way, but she'd hate that.
378
::She'd hate the thought of being caught
379
::unawares by something and then suddenly just
being like, oh, I'm getting this wave of kind
380
::of belated grief.
381
::But, yeah, for me, I think those objects that,
382
::for whatever reason, help you to connect with
them, then I kind of welcome.
383
::MaryLayo: Sure. And how did the whole deciding
what to keep whatnot.
384
::There's always challenges when it comes to
keeping or giving away.
385
::How did you go about that?
386
::Chris: Yeah, so I think it depended on not
only what, but also when.
387
::So I would say that there's the two distinct
phases.
388
::There's the period after my dad passed away.
389
::Up until the point that my mum decided that
390
::she needed to move house.
391
::It was a sort of big family house that
392
::obviously the children had moved out of and
then my dad had passed away.
393
::And you're not a big fan of dogs, but the sort
of family dog had then been put down and it
394
::was just mum on her own.
395
::So there was this moment where she had
396
::decided, right, well, I really think that I
need to move on now.
397
::And I think at that point you move from a
process whereby you can be selective in the
398
::things that you are getting rid of, with
obviously exceptions.
399
::If it is something like you say, that relates
to kind of documentation that's important and
400
::that sort of thing, then to a point where if
you've decided that you're moving house, in my
401
::mum's case, she's moving from a family home
into a much smaller property that just doesn't
402
::have the same space.
403
::So she just had to start going through those
404
::things.
405
::At that point, we had kind of different.
406
::Again, sort of siblings had different roles.
407
::Mum, for some reason, thought that would be
408
::best place to clear the loft out now that it
was undertaken with a kind of combination of
409
::sort of welcomed sentimentality and then real
kind of practicality and almost a kind of
410
::unspoken agreement between the two of us that
certain things that probably had some
411
::sentimental value would have to go.
412
::I think that because you just couldn't keep
413
::everything.
414
::There was one moment where.
415
::And I'm sure that my mum wouldn't mind me
sharing this, where she had got quite upset
416
::because.
417
::And there was no malice in it at all, but
418
::she'd almost got upset at my dad for having so
much stuff, because she had said, why is he
419
::left me with so much stuff to sort through?
And I think that in that moment, she thought
420
::if we were to take everything with us, pack
everything up that was in the loft and keep it
421
::in its boxes and take it to the next house and
put it in a garage or put it up in the loft or
422
::that sort of thing, all you're doing is you're
then pushing that process down the road and
423
::then probably making it worse because things
are older and they have more sentimentality
424
::to.
425
::Mum and I had this kind of unspoken agreement
426
::that things would have to go.
427
::We just couldn't keep everything.
428
::And so there was this kind of, I guess,
process.
429
::We did it over a couple of.
430
::Couple of days.
431
::The loft, which actually was less time than I
thought it might take, but whereby I'd go up
432
::into the loft.
433
::The loft, by the way, was always my dad's sort
434
::of domain.
435
::It was where if anybody needed anything out of
436
::the loft, it was dad's kind of place to go to.
437
::So I felt quite privileged, actually being
438
::able to go up there in the first place.
439
::But I would sort of bring things down, look at
440
::them, and it was like, this is valuable.
441
::I'm taking it with me.
442
::From mum's point of view, she's taking it with
her.
443
::This is something that just needs to go.
444
::And then there were those in between that were
445
::like, essentially what we were saying is,
let's have a look at them and kind of take our
446
::time to understand what they are and what
significance.
447
::But we were kind of resigning ourselves to the
fact that we probably knew that those things
448
::had to go.
449
::So, yeah, it was an interesting.
450
::That particular part of it was interesting.
451
::And I think that it helped that we were both
452
::on that same page, that things would have to
go, and that any sense that my dad's voice was
453
::in the background kind of saying, oh, why are
you getting rid of that?
454
::I've kept that for 40 years.
455
::I think you just had to put that out of your
456
::mind to a certain extent, otherwise you just
wouldn't throw anything away.
457
::MaryLayo: Sure. And do you think that because
quite some time had passed when you were then
458
::clearing out the loft, that kind of helped to
make that quite tough decision?
459
::Chris: Yeah, I think so.
460
::I mean, I think it's probably quite obvious
461
::from the way that I suppose I talk about my
dad at this point, that I'm at peace with his
462
::passing now.
463
::I think for a while, evidently I wasn't, and
464
::unsurprisingly I wasn't, but I think that.
465
::I think I'm at least at peace with that.
466
::It was still hard, but I think that what helps
is I actually think that the practical
467
::considerations really help because it gives
you a sense of purpose if you know that you
468
::have to do something.
469
::You can't just be ruled by that sort of
470
::emotion.
471
::You know that there isn't the time and the
472
::space for it and it doesn't mean that you're
not giving it kind of the respect that it
473
::deserves.
474
::But I think you are just driven a little bit
475
::more by really practical things.
476
::When do we need to get it done by?
477
::In mum's case, she knew that she had to go
from a large amount of stuff to a
478
::significantly smaller amount of stuff.
479
::So I think that those kind of parameters
480
::really helped just make it happen.
481
::MaryLayo: Yeah, absolutely agree.
482
::For me, the fact that we lived in a really
483
::small place helped because couldn't keep all
that stuff even if I wanted to.
484
::Couldn't.
485
::So the hard decisions were made for me.
486
::It forced my hands.
487
::And then there was another.
488
::And that was the initial I would call main
clear out because I was renovating the place
489
::as well, had plans in terms of what I was
going to do with mum's room.
490
::So a lot of those practical decisions overrode
the sentimental drivers for me keeping it.
491
::And I would say the same even some years, a
few years later, when I did another kind of
492
::clear out, when I was changing it was now the
spare room, I was changing it to the office
493
::and I had to get rid of the big queen size bed
that really was like a signature of my mum
494
::because that was her bed and it's so sturdy,
so comfy, so it's there and even it sounds
495
::silly, but I know it's not even getting to
that place where it's like, oh, I can't keep
496
::the bed, even though I would want to.
497
::Practicality tells me that I have to get rid
498
::of it, I have to make room for the office.
499
::And so those kind of hard decisions helped me
500
::really to make those choices because in the
end it wasn't really a choice.
501
::Yeah, it wasn't really an option.
502
::Chris: Did you, did you ever.
503
::And I think I started talking about this in
504
::the last question that you asked me, but did
you ever get that?
505
::I suppose it's guilt to a certain extent.
506
::But it comes from the kind of imagined voice
507
::of somebody almost like questioning your
decisions.
508
::Did you get that to any extent?
Almost like your mum saying, what are you
509
::doing that for?
510
::MaryLayo: Yeah, I would say so.
511
::And I don't know if I would it.
512
::I wouldn't say it was quite because it was in
my mum's voice, those sounds, those words.
513
::But I think it's because I know what my mum
was like.
514
::My mom kept things.
515
::She wouldn't just throw things away, she would
516
::keep them just in case, or she'll keep them.
517
::And therefore there was a lot of stuff in the
518
::house and so it wasn't really my mum's nature
just to get rid of things.
519
::My mom would be the one that would say, no,
don't take that away, no, we need that.
520
::That was her voice.
521
::So moving stuff, getting rid of stuff.
522
::It was sad in a way, because I knew that what
we were doing was against my mom's nature.
523
::But I don't think I'll say I felt guilt.
524
::I just felt a bit torn just because.
525
::And that's probably why I asked you that
question about was it easier years later?
526
::Because I think that if I had a much bigger
house, I would have been very tempted just to
527
::get rid of stuff, but kind of shed stuff, not
really get rid and just park it somewhere
528
::because I had the space and I didn't have to
get rid of it.
529
::So I would say it's definitely been a learning
for me.
530
::And I think just because of the size of the
place has helped me not to keep stuff
531
::unnecessarily.
532
::One of the first things I think of, even when
533
::I'm just buying clothes, have I got room for
that?
534
::And that's helped me to kind of minimalize and
just have stuff that I need to have, not
535
::extras.
536
::It's certainly helped change me, actually.
537
::Chris: Yeah, it's funny, I've got a memory of
my brother, actually, from when he was just in
538
::terms of the kind of different approaches that
people have.
539
::And this is not about kind of moving out of
the family home, but when my brother moved
540
::house previously, my brother's a couple of
years older than me, and he moved out of his
541
::kind of, I suppose, first house of his own
that he had had and bought and renovated and
542
::that sort of thing.
543
::And as he was moving out, in my head, I'd have
544
::thought, right, well, a couple of weeks, maybe
even a couple of months ahead of time, I'd
545
::have started packing up the things.
546
::In my case, I've got book, you can see my
547
::books behind me, I'd have been packing up my
boxes and those sorts of things and just
548
::starting to think about it, knowing that there
was that sentimental or there was some sort of
549
::emotional work to do, even in something like
that.
550
::If I'm moving, do I need to take this?
Or almost dismantling a house has its own kind
551
::of emotional work attached to it.
552
::My brother, on the evening that he was moving
553
::out of the house, had barely touched, he
wasn't a big house, but he had barely touched
554
::the stuff that was inside it.
555
::And I had turned up and he'd invited myself
556
::and a few of his close friends around to sort
of help him move.
557
::There wasn't enough stuff to have a removals
van or anything.
558
::And he just swept through the house top to
bottom, couple of hours.
559
::I mean, I'm not exaggerating to say that with
kind of work tops, it was almost an arm
560
::swished across into a bag, gone.
561
::What are you going to do with these?
562
::Oh, well, I'm just going to throw them.
563
::And it was just instantaneous.
564
::And it just struck me that there's no right or
wrong way there.
565
::Obviously, there are kind of certain things
probably got sent to landfill that probably
566
::could have been served a better purpose.
567
::So environmentally, it was probably not the
568
::smartest thing to do.
569
::But I don't think he has any regrets.
570
::I don't think he has any regrets about that as
an approach, whereas I could quite easily have
571
::just agonized over things.
572
::And like I say, this is talking about just
573
::moving house.
574
::That's not even going close to the subject of
575
::kind of dismantling a house.
576
::That's your family home, and it's the home in
577
::which your dad passed away.
578
::So, yeah, it's just interesting the different
579
::ways that people attack it.
580
::MaryLayo: Absolutely.
581
::I'm just wondering if, just in terms of
582
::passing words, maybe some advice that you
could or would give someone if they were in
583
::that position of having to clear a house
following the passing of their loved ones,
584
::what would you say?
585
::Chris: Well, being the good podcast guest that
I am, Mary, I did jot some things down before
586
::because I knew that question might be coming.
587
::MaryLayo: Ever prepared.
588
::Please ever prepare.
589
::Chris: Absolutely.
590
::You know me well.
591
::I think the first thing that I wrote down is
that advice that people give on subjects like
592
::this shouldn't be taken as advice as such.
593
::They should be taken as other people's
594
::experience.
595
::And I think that there are so many different
596
::ways to approach something like this.
597
::And if somebody tells you how you should do
598
::it, I think it's by all means, listen to them
and factor their experience into your
599
::thoughts, but kind of, I would say take advice
with a pinch of salt because you just don't
600
::know how you're going to or how it's going to
work for you.
601
::And I think consider that as well when you're
thinking about people around you, you know,
602
::particularly if siblings, if siblings are
involved or other relatives, that other people
603
::will inevitably have a different approach to
you and will work on different timescales and
604
::will kind of have different emotional profiles
and they don't always line up.
605
::So I would just be kind of mindful of that.
606
::I just wrote down.
607
::I'm trying to be kind of concise here, but I
just put be respectful and realistic at the
608
::same time.
609
::I just think that it's that inevitably you
610
::will veer towards either the sentimental or
the overly practical, almost item to item.
611
::But I think if there's always that balance of
just being realistic and respectful at the
612
::same time, if it's something that you are
getting, that you feel like you have to get
613
::rid of, then look at it, open it up, share it,
talk to somebody about it, because I think
614
::that helps, but be realistic about it.
615
::And then the last thing I had put down was
616
::just about.
617
::And I think this is probably more of a comment
618
::on grief more generally, but just be prepared
to be caught off guard by things and for it
619
::not to be that straightforward process that
goes exactly how you planned.
620
::Like I say, I think that could be more
applicable to grief in general.
621
::That doesn't follow that natural line that as
time passes, you kind of come to terms with it
622
::more and everything makes sense more because
actually you can just very quickly be sort of
623
::pulled back and something will provoke a
really emotional response in you.
624
::And I think that's fine.
625
::It's not a sign that that journey that you're
626
::on is kind of back to square one again.
627
::So, yeah, those are my parting words.
628
::I hope that's useful, done yourself justice.
629
::MaryLayo: You should be proud of yourself.
630
::No, very thoughtful, really thoughtful
631
::reflections, actually, for each of them, I
kind of thought.
632
::Yeah, that's a good point because it was a
reminder to me of certain things.
633
::Chris: Am I putting you on the spot by asking
you to do the same?
634
::Is there anything that you've learned?
635
::MaryLayo: I think one is have people around,
if you can, to support you in the process.
636
::I think it can help, and it does help.
637
::It's not to say that you can't do it by
638
::yourself, but this is one of those where the
more hands, the better it is.
639
::The other, I would say is, you don't
necessarily have to make those hard decisions
640
::right at the start.
641
::Like I mentioned, even like what you said with
642
::your mom, it took her.
643
::She did it bit by bit over a period of years.
644
::So you don't always have to think of it like,
oh, I must do it, finish it there and then.
645
::I think that there are occasions where someone
will need to do that.
646
::So, for example, if they need to sell the
house up, but if you don't, then you don't
647
::have to do it there and then with a finish
date at the end of it, see how it goes.
648
::Then.
649
::The other is, it reminds me of what you said,
650
::what we were talking about, in terms of
respecting items and the sentimental value of
651
::those things.
652
::So if you can't keep it, and if it's too
653
::sentimental, maybe to give to charity, then
find a happy home for it.
654
::It might be, send a picture to a friend and
say, do you want this?
655
::Reach out to see if it can go to another happy
home.
656
::And then there's probably some things where
it's easy to make cutthroat decisions, like,
657
::oh, this is for the bin, this is a keeper.
658
::And then you mentioned about that
659
::miscellaneous pile.
660
::I think separating them out into piles, into
661
::categories helps narrow things down and helps
to make that decision, because that
662
::miscellaneous pile, it might be easier, on
reflection, to come back to it and be like,
663
::oh, you know what?
Actually, I don't need this.
664
::Or actually, I could do this with this beer.
665
::So don't always need to.
666
::It's not black and white, in or out all the
time.
667
::Then there was another thing that came to
mind, and I think it was about when you
668
::mentioned Paul, do listen in terms of people's
experiences, but don't necessarily take their
669
::advice.
670
::I think there's definitely something in that.
671
::I can't remember how I heard this, but I
remember in a conversation someone saying how
672
::they didn't keep their husband's glasses, as
in the spectacles.
673
::And then when I was thinking, actually, but
I've still got my mum's glasses, it's no good
674
::to me.
675
::I'm not going to wear them.
676
::But my mum wore those glasses probably 45% or
50% of the time.
677
::And so it's another signature item of her.
678
::And she always had those glasses on.
679
::And so for me, just to dispose of them, didn't
really feel right, didn't feel comfortable to
680
::me.
681
::So I would definitely reiterate what you said
682
::about taking on people's.
683
::I mean, listening to people's experiences, but
684
::not necessarily basing your decisions on
someone else's approach, do what feels
685
::comfortable for yourself.
686
::Everyone's different.
687
::Chris: Yeah. And I think the last thing that I
would say, just hearing you say that, is that
688
::I think that there will inevitably be things
that you part with that you could then regret
689
::a later date for exactly that reason.
690
::And I think that it's just important.
691
::And this isn't advice that I know that I'll
take because I think I probably still would
692
::get upset at myself if the kind of situation
arose.
693
::But because you can't keep everything, you
will get rid of things.
694
::And at some point, you may well have a moment
when you think, why did I get rid of?
695
::Why did I get rid of that?
And I think you just have to remember that it
696
::isn't the item itself.
697
::Like you said, I don't know about their
698
::glasses, but they might not have been
expensive glasses.
699
::Physically, their value may be really minimal.
700
::And actually what it is is your kind of
701
::projection onto them.
702
::And that's more important, I think.
703
::So I would just.
704
::Yeah, it's probably a piece of advice to
705
::myself, really, that I think when those things
do crop up, and they will do, just not to feel
706
::bad at having parted with things that I might
later regret.
707
::MaryLayo: Well, Chris, thank you so much for
being that thoughtful, considerate and well
708
::prepared guest that I know you to be, and
thanks for sharing your experiences.
709
::It's been really cool.
710
::Chris: It's been a pleasure and likewise,
thank you.
711
::MaryLayo: Here's a spiritual wellness tip for
you.
712
::It's psalm, chapter 34, verse 18, and it
reads, the Lord is close to the broken hearted
713
::and saves those who are crushed in spirit.
714
::Thank you for listening.
715
::Do follow and join me again next time on
Maryland talks beyond the smile, close.
